tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post1038410280308322521..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: A Service of Lessons and Hymns for Independence DayElizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-43337877988506275462016-06-27T13:37:33.863-04:002016-06-27T13:37:33.863-04:00Lo, these many years later, a non-Anglican comes s...Lo, these many years later, a non-Anglican comes seeking desperately something to make an Independence Day service more palatable... thank you, thank you, thank you.tanita✿davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01671822274852087499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-4278029666705257912010-07-03T23:14:36.310-04:002010-07-03T23:14:36.310-04:00Might I encourage you to take a look at the writin...Might I encourage you to take a look at the writings of Henry George (b. Philadelphia, 1839; d. NYC, 1897) including some speeches -- e.g., "The Crime of Poverty" and "Thou Shalt Not Steal" -- and two books -- "Progress and Poverty" and "Social Problems" -- all available online. For a short intro see http://www.wealthandwant.com/docs/Kiefer_Huntington.htm<br /> or Weld Carter's "An Introduction to Henry George" at wealthandwant.com. (Weld was my grandfather, and wrote this circa 1955.)<br /><br />Further, you might google Henry George's name and "liberty."<br /><br />I've come, slowly and sometimes grudgingly, to my late grandparents' conclusion, that Henry George's ideas will bring us a lot closer to the ideals we hold dear.LVTfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17172522529549663162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-46452333921946584682010-07-03T15:28:42.438-04:002010-07-03T15:28:42.438-04:00Wonderful service! I wish I had seen it in time to...Wonderful service! I wish I had seen it in time to use it this weekend. Oh, well - next year.<br /><br />Just one thing I would change - actually, remove. Your quotation of Chief Seattle's speech perpetuates what is most likely a hoax. The chief spoke in his native language without a written text. Years later, a certain Dr Henry A Smith wrote down what he said was in Seattle's speech, based on his hand-written notes taken as another speaker translated for the Chief. There is little historical evidence that Seattle ever said the things in the "remembered" speech. It's a bunch of nice words, but probably not what the Chief actually said. (See various historical commentaries for confirmation of all this.)Brother Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10176889878584518460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-2880402108549360002010-07-03T08:55:19.567-04:002010-07-03T08:55:19.567-04:00Thank you for this. I'm in the UK and I lead a...Thank you for this. I'm in the UK and I lead a monthly family praise worship at an Anglican church in Manchester. <br /><br />The next one happens to fall on July 4 and it seemed a shame to let the occasion pass without mentioning Independence Day, but I had struggled to find a relevance for us over here. <br /><br />Now I know where I'm going with it. Thank you again.Jennifer Beaumonthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10257716496121637472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-86589699956361576432010-07-01T07:19:19.061-04:002010-07-01T07:19:19.061-04:00Thank you, thank you, thank you. I found your fir...Thank you, thank you, thank you. I found your first posting of this service while searching for what hymns might be good for Sunday and realized that you'd put together something that I'd been wishing for and knew should be done. I'm clerk of session for a tiny church in Lordville, NY and we have a parade every July 4 at noon. Of course there is a church service this 4th of July since it is Sunday, but we've voted to have one every 4th of July no matter what day it falls on. Your service is wonderful.Calliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06342524445812547875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-21853557938443272402010-07-01T02:25:02.079-04:002010-07-01T02:25:02.079-04:00This makes me think about the Remembrance Day (Vet...This makes me think about the Remembrance Day (Veteran's Day) services I've attended in Canada and England. While similar services I've attended here seem to be about how mighty we are, the services I've been to in those countries have been much more somber, lifting up the sacrifice of both the living and the dead. I appreciate them very much, and wish ours were more like that.jonesnorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07080423425362493404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-52963246761509410712010-06-29T17:33:32.876-04:002010-06-29T17:33:32.876-04:00Thanks for this - I think that the first time I di...Thanks for this - I think that the first time I discussed this with you was way back in 2008! I can not be at a liturgy and hear some God-awful jingoistic song and NOT think of you. You are the good part. As is God, who I am also thinking of at that time.<br /><br /><br />Two Auntees comment is very thought provoking!<br /><br />Hah! My word... difying!Franhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07181529277715646835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-2658927138949190272010-06-29T14:11:55.359-04:002010-06-29T14:11:55.359-04:00This is a terrific service. Thanks so much for sha...This is a terrific service. Thanks so much for sharing. I have wrestled with these things for some time now and can appreciate what a great job you've done with it. I think its because you have encapsulated my sentiments about faith and country.Mannyhttp://www.stpetersbeverly.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-28211837077133258762010-06-29T12:17:51.572-04:002010-06-29T12:17:51.572-04:00Points well made, Mack.
There are the Prayers of ...Points well made, Mack.<br /><br />There are the Prayers of the People where those petitions will be made.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-40707074582758415362010-06-29T11:45:45.016-04:002010-06-29T11:45:45.016-04:00I LOVE this service. A few years ago, the rector ...I LOVE this service. A few years ago, the rector of my church asked me to chair a committee. The essence of the committee's work was not music or liturgy but at one meeting we ended up going down some of those paths and ended up debating the use of patriotic music and flags in the church. The meeting went from calm to heated a New York minute. In a split second, people were yelling and screaming at each other. Here I was in the midst of this wanting to hide under the table. I learned and realized then that regardless of how you feel about it, it is a hot button issue in many places, much like sexuality in some places. Passions can be strong on both sides of this one. I'm so glad I don't have to negotiate that issue any longer.Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16855171851801011788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-21708523294114488902010-06-29T10:49:52.390-04:002010-06-29T10:49:52.390-04:00Generally, I agree with the positive comments you&...Generally, I agree with the positive comments you've received.<br /><br />I do have something of a problem, however.<br /><br />I deeply appreciated the inclusion of quotes from The Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., and Chief Seattle. But no acknowledgment that for the better part of our history our treatment of and policies toward Native American peoples and African Americans was basically genocidal.<br /><br />How can we ask for God's blessing upon our nation when there has been no call to repentance?!<br /><br />Well, now I realize that I have yet another problem ... our national addiction to fossil fuels and the ravaging of God's good creation we have wrought on account of our addiction.<br /><br />Surely this July 4th would warrant some mention of this concern as well?MackBeemerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13192778310344466576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-18130441665031781532010-06-29T09:23:50.063-04:002010-06-29T09:23:50.063-04:00It frightens me to see national flags in our churc...It frightens me to see national flags in our churches.<br /><br />Elaine, he has a right to his opinion. And done properly, is there not room enough to voice that opinion from the pulpit as much as there is space to affirm we who are GLBT folks?<br /><br />What is more important is that you are avoiding a conversation that you need to have with him before sharing your pulpit with him. You need to be honest about his reputation in the pulpit and to determine if indeed it is his aim to address the issue of GLBT folks. If that is his intention then what is the GLBT issue's connection to the two occasions represented in the service where he has asked to preach? What relevance does the topic of GLBT folks have to his ordination? What relevance do GLBT folks have with a celebration of your nation's independence, other than what is obvious to most of the rest of us?<br /><br />If he cannot make a legitimate connection to the occasion for the service other than his opportunity to spread his opposition to GLBT folks, then you need to state in no uncertain terms that it would be inappropriate to address the topic in this service and that he is not to do so.<br /><br />And then you need to be prepared with plan B should he proceed to do it anyway. Such as the organist and choir prepared to stand and lead the congregation in a boisterous hymn while the ushers arrive to quietly escort him from the pulpit and the service.<br /><br />Otherwise, he needs to not preach.Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-33340193173364405462010-06-29T09:03:26.478-04:002010-06-29T09:03:26.478-04:00Thanks, MC. This service helps me to pray while o...Thanks, MC. This service helps me to pray while others wave their flags.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-90465940319363076762010-06-29T08:59:49.181-04:002010-06-29T08:59:49.181-04:00Thanks for these readings and hymns. You've g...Thanks for these readings and hymns. You've given us much to think about. I, too, have been on a journey with the ideas of separation of church and state. Personally, I wonder whether the ideals presented to me in childhood - "ForGodandCountry" as one melded concept - are what held me back. In some ways, however, it's a relief to admit that I live in an imperfect county and am part of an imperfect church. I have many privileges as a citizen of this imperfect country, and they mark me, for good or ill, as I function in the world. My church does things I admire, then turns around and does things I don't admire. I can't distance myself from the "bad stuff" and identify only with the things I like. All of it needs prayer.Mary-Cauliflowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17023407956584118667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-84562065558950445742010-06-29T08:27:47.785-04:002010-06-29T08:27:47.785-04:00Elaine - Well, if you have to ask the question . ....Elaine - Well, if you have to ask the question . . . .<br /><br />I would say yes. Absolutely.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-66368971704639980282010-06-29T08:24:03.624-04:002010-06-29T08:24:03.624-04:00WOW -- thanks for posting this ... I've got a ...WOW -- thanks for posting this ... I've got a retired deacon who is celebrating his 35th anniversary of his ordination ... and he's 84. He asked to preach I said yes. Since then two trustworthy folks have warned me that previously he has used the pulpit to preach against lgbtq folk. I don't know him well. I did ask what he would preach about and he said it would be about scripture and patriotic stuff. I've never checked up on the outline or script for a preacher before should I ask to see his?Elaine C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02094641269585924122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-8932096448934875112010-06-29T08:13:02.544-04:002010-06-29T08:13:02.544-04:00Thanks, TwoAnunties. Your words have helped push m...Thanks, TwoAnunties. Your words have helped push my ambivalence.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-89621276643064189952010-06-29T08:03:18.395-04:002010-06-29T08:03:18.395-04:00What a wonderful Service of Lessons and Hymns for...What a wonderful Service of Lessons and Hymns for our day of Independence, these collections of words from those who shaped our history should be cherished and given honor as you have strived to compose. <br /><br />I myself long to see our National Flag standing within my church as a symbol that says to me that this, our Nations symbol of freedom, justice for all, it is the flag that so many young soldier put their lives in peril to ensure that we can sit and worship where ever, and with whom ever and to the G-d of our choosing. <br /><br />To those of you who have never laid in a foxhole or bunker on some hill far away, scared to death, afraid that this would be the night you might die defending our battered shores. I ask you to let us see our National Flag standing in our places of worship in its silent memorial to those who have died for her. Standing silently to remind us that we must always struggle and fight for our freedoms and right and respect from each of us, to each other standing in the shadow that falls on our country. <br /><br />This is what I want from those of you who have never fought for our country in a foreign country, cold, hungry, frighten by what who might face is mortal combat. I want you to know why I want to see our National Flag in my house of worship.Kay & Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04244257765709660605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-74097586899833112132010-06-29T07:52:14.263-04:002010-06-29T07:52:14.263-04:00Thanks, Magdalene. Glad you like it.Thanks, Magdalene. Glad you like it.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-84797653374344407912010-06-29T07:40:12.382-04:002010-06-29T07:40:12.382-04:00Elizabeth, this is absolutely marvelous. We will b...Elizabeth, this is absolutely marvelous. We will be having a traditional (for us!) service with a sermon, and there is so much here that will no doubt make its way into that sermon! Thank you.Magdalene6127https://www.blogger.com/profile/11036211735489393308noreply@blogger.com