tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post2147382651975000454..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: FGM in the USAElizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-31253271223725171182018-01-11T21:06:34.552-05:002018-01-11T21:06:34.552-05:00Plenty of people have actually- luckily 2/3rds of ...Plenty of people have actually- luckily 2/3rds of Generation Z oppose itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-90312264627329578382018-01-11T21:05:46.199-05:002018-01-11T21:05:46.199-05:00I think any form of Genital Mutilation should be a...I think any form of Genital Mutilation should be a capital crime and receive the death penalty. I'm with Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Nasal EL-Saadawi (both FGM victims) on this- both FGzm and MGM should be banned. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-75034819535464709472013-11-03T17:30:43.852-05:002013-11-03T17:30:43.852-05:00Thank you, Elizabeth, for posting this information...Thank you, Elizabeth, for posting this information. I just signed the petition. That these kinds of experiments are taking place in the US is shocking indeed.<br /><br />I have been reading a great deal about FGM over the last few months and find it one of the most horrific and barbaric practices I have ever heard of. As a result of my own research into this matter, I am now connected with many women and organizations working to stop it. I must take solace in the fact that there are people who are working against it everyday.<br /><br />What happens to girls and women around the world because of their gender is absolutely sickening.<br /><br />We must all work together to raise awareness and let people know what they can do to help eradicate FGM.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16582210628011839373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-81577608919636884962013-01-03T16:24:29.357-05:002013-01-03T16:24:29.357-05:00The only difference between Male Genital Mutilatio...The only difference between Male Genital Mutilation and Female Genital Mutilation is that the first victim is male, while the second is female. Genital Mutilation is Genital Mutilation.Korydon1https://www.blogger.com/profile/01742754034949149661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-47602599505767156412012-02-26T00:34:55.466-05:002012-02-26T00:34:55.466-05:00This is wrong I agree
but what made people think i...This is wrong I agree<br />but what made people think it was ok to cut off the end of my penis<br />No one ever thinks of thatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-23823703384703070072011-03-30T22:03:29.921-04:002011-03-30T22:03:29.921-04:00I agree, Anonymous. Next time, Please leave your n...I agree, Anonymous. Next time, Please leave your name if you can.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-19831550343169645392011-03-30T20:13:19.930-04:002011-03-30T20:13:19.930-04:00Sexual amputations on ALL children (including boys...Sexual amputations on ALL children (including boys!) are EQUALLY horrifying. <br /><br />"People in the West tend to overestimate the detrimental effects of female circumcision and underestimate the effects of male circumcision. All civilized people should, of course, oppose the cutting of any person's genitals without their consent." <br /><br />-Eliyahu Ungar-Sargon, Chicago Filmmaker<br />http://cutthefilm.com/Cut_Website/Home.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-59769001894678342792010-07-01T23:48:44.570-04:002010-07-01T23:48:44.570-04:00You beat me to it, IT!
I have a book called "...You beat me to it, IT!<br /><br />I have a book called "The Stronger Women Get, The More Men Love Football."<br /><br />Who knew it would devolve into, "The Stronger Women (and other XX People, not to mention LGBTs generally) Get, The More That Patriarchy* Will Want to Cut Off Our Clits and Warp Our 'Disinterested in Babies' Brains To Fit"<br /><br />* Patriarchy, represented by medical doctors, male AND female! :-0JCFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14516376500318551838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-54965227444532530042010-07-01T11:42:25.431-04:002010-07-01T11:42:25.431-04:00There they go again, playing God.. trying to manip...There they go again, playing God.. trying to manipulate nature. I feel so sorry for the CAH kids. They are the genital tinkerers' delight. <br /><br />The author of this article, Alice Dreger, was the source as well of the article two weeks ago - see http://www.thehastingscenter.org/Bioethicsforum/Post.aspx?id=4730&blogid=140 - that brought the Cornell clitoris reduction surgery (and highly questionable annual 'testing' of the remaining sensations) to light. Then again, she created quite a ruckus. Dreger is someone to keep on the radar. On the androgen blocker issue she says:<br /><br />"Needless to say, we do not think it reasonable or just to use medicine to try to prevent homosexual and bisexual orientations. Nor do we think it reasonable to use medicine to prevent uppity women, like the sort who might raise just these kinds of alarms. Consider that our declaration of our conflict of interest."<br /><br />i love the irony of names. Dreger dredges up icky ethical issues. Robinett is french for 'little faucet' but I understand it is slang for... the male organ. Since my book and videos are aimed at protecting children from genital cutting, French readers must get a chuckle.Patricia Robinetthttp://www.RapeofInnocence.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-80393799634566584902010-06-30T13:58:13.583-04:002010-06-30T13:58:13.583-04:00Here's another barbarism: trying to "con...Here's another barbarism: trying to "convert" girls by treating female babies in utero with androgen blockers.<br /><br />http://www.thehastingscenter.org/Bioethicsforum/Post.aspx?id=4754&blogid=140IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-87318358781666614232010-06-28T17:53:55.284-04:002010-06-28T17:53:55.284-04:00Dix P .Poppas, M.D.
525 E 68th St
New York NY 1006...Dix P .Poppas, M.D.<br />525 E 68th St<br />New York NY 10065<br />P: (212) 746-5337Ernnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-1852192536673926672010-06-26T19:40:31.686-04:002010-06-26T19:40:31.686-04:00Yes, Mack. Precisely. About that screaming baby gi...Yes, Mack. Precisely. About that screaming baby girlElizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-91613981594842592012010-06-26T19:27:56.167-04:002010-06-26T19:27:56.167-04:00Elizabeth:
Ordinarily I'd love your invitatio...Elizabeth:<br /><br />Ordinarily I'd love your invitation to "come on in" and enter into the "conversation." <br /><br />But the screaming beautiful baby girl... and we're to have a <i><b>conversation</b></i>??!MackBeemerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13192778310344466576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-10106171461879351202010-06-25T20:50:16.663-04:002010-06-25T20:50:16.663-04:00The combination of patriarchy & power cuts (or...The combination of patriarchy & power cuts (or doesn't) in both ways: the same gender binary that would cut HEALTHY children "to fit", also makes life difficult (even impossible) for Trans & GenderQueer people by REFUSING to give them the surgery/hormones they ASK (nay, BEG) for! [Or makes them pay out-of-pocket, for "cosmetic" surgeries. BS!]JCFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-6752593975121302422010-06-25T02:30:54.835-04:002010-06-25T02:30:54.835-04:00Elizabeth, thank you for telling secrets, It'...Elizabeth, thank you for telling secrets, It's so true that we are sick due to our secrets. I didn't realize I'd been circumcised until I was over 50 years old. My life has improved now that I know what happened and have begun to heal the trauma.<br /><br />Yes, genital cutting of little girls in the USA is not new. In 1888, a Seventh Day Adventist doctor J. Harvey Kellogg of Battle Creek, MI, wrote In his book, "Plain Facts for Old and Young":<br /><br />“A remedy [for masturbation] which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision... The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed... <br /><br />“In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid [phenol] to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement."<br /><br />In 1951, another Seventh Day Adventist doctor, Harold Shryock, advocates female circumcision in, "On becoming a woman": <br /><br />"The Creator has seen fit to arrange the organs of a woman in such a way that the clitoris and vagina are very sensitive. Delicate contact with these areas produces exciting sensations... there are teen-age girls who... have fallen into the habit of manipulating these sensitive tissues as a means of excitement. This habit is spoken of as masturbation...<br /><br />"There is an anatomical factor that sometimes causes irritation about the clitoris and thus encourages a manipulation of the delicate reproductive organs... Oftentimes the remedy for this situation consists of a minor surgical operation spoken of as circumcision. This operation is not hazardous and is much to be preferred to allowing the condition of irritation to continue."<br /><br />My book, "The Rape of Innocence: FGM & Circumcision in the USA" and my blog at www.RapeOfInnocence.com tell more... my story and others'. I lost a clitoris, prepuce and labia. <br /><br />Because of my book, I have met other WASP women who were also cut - one as late as 1970. Blue Cross Blue Shield insurance covered clitoridectomy until 1977. A surgeon told one man whose mother had been circumcised in the early 20th century that FGM was big business in Manhattan. <br /><br />My concern is the psychological effects and the diminished quality of life: PTSD, anger, grief, anxiety, depression, night terrors, suicide, etc... Is it a coincidence that the only three cultures that circumcise their young are at war in the Middle East? <br /><br />So I grieve for all children whose cultures, religions, doctors and parents rush to cut their healthy genital tissue. Circumcision is a wound that bleeds for a very long time.Patricia Robinetthttp://www.RapeOfInnocence.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-23854423831176498302010-06-24T23:47:28.755-04:002010-06-24T23:47:28.755-04:00Appalled - truly appalled - that this is countenan...Appalled - truly appalled - that this is countenanced at NY Presbyterian or that there appear to be ways of slipping it under the legal wire in the US. Got myself into a spot of trouble at another site a couple of years back, for condemning male infant circumcision, which is not remotely on the same level of atrocity, but..... So I'll consider my bit as having been said on that topic and hush up.Lapinbizarrenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-53384508823911176182010-06-24T17:05:19.799-04:002010-06-24T17:05:19.799-04:00Well, and that's the deal, Elizabeth. I norma...Well, and that's the deal, Elizabeth. I normally don't get wound up about those sorts of articles in the popular press because they are often ignorant of the medical science. But when I started Googling, and the Hastings Center weighed in, I had to start doing my homework. I spent several hours Googling over the next couple of days.<br /><br />I am eventually going to write a letter to their IRB as a member of another IRB, as professionally and sternly as possible, but I have to get a lot more steam out of my ears first. I plan to discuss this with my medical student society sometime this year as a good bioethics case. I also will use it to be a tool to keep myself more mindful when I get a little bored on our IRB, as a reminder not to let things in plain sight slip through. I am grateful our IRB has far less controversial proposals!!!!Kirkepiscatoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02651684515435040529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-68357416749188256912010-06-24T15:53:59.907-04:002010-06-24T15:53:59.907-04:00thank you all for caring and helping to end this!
...thank you all for caring and helping to end this!<br /><br />unfortunately, it neither starts nor ends wih cornell nor poppas. these mutilations are happening on a daily basis in virtually every children's hospital in the "western world", and have been considered "best practice" by medical authorities worldwide for more than 50 years! the victims of these "correcting surgeries" have denounced this inhumane practice for almost 20 years, unfortunately without getting too much attention.<br /><br />let's hope this might finally start to change now ...<br /><br />i'd like to urge everbody to educate yourselves and then others and press to end this suffering globally and eventually hold the doctors accountable.<br /><br />as victims of these mutilations have been going on about for years: <a href="http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Doctors_playing_God_with_childrens_sex.html?cid=981950" rel="nofollow">"it's a human rights issue!"</a><br /><br />thanks for standing up for future children.<br /><br />seelenlos / zwischengeschlecht.orgZwischengeschlecht.orghttp://zwischengeschlecht.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-37033345622609503152010-06-24T15:18:05.289-04:002010-06-24T15:18:05.289-04:00The David Reimer story always, always breaks my he...The David Reimer story always, always breaks my heart. He ultimately committed suicide. Someone - Dr Money, most likely - needs to be charged with manslaughter. <br /><br />Long ago, as a nursing student at Taunton State Hospital (now closed), I cared for people who had had lobotomies. They were walking reminders of the abuse of the psychiatric medical system. Tragic, tragic situations.<br /><br />As for the parents - I'm sure shame is a powerful dynamic for some. What is one to do when a physician tells you that this is best for your child? I tend to be more empathetic with them. <br /><br />I'm not so empathetic with parents who think they are 'saving' their child from more 'primitive' surgeries in their homeland. Mutilation is mutilation. Period. End of sentence.<br /><br />Parents who do this for cosmetic reasons, however, should be - at the very least - brought up on child abuse charges.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-79603403602392262372010-06-24T15:18:05.290-04:002010-06-24T15:18:05.290-04:00Tough read. Thanks for calling attention to the b...Tough read. Thanks for calling attention to the barbarism. <br /><br /><i>The important thing is that we get this guy to stop. Now.</i><br /><br />Yes.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-58582769613426169302010-06-24T15:05:33.720-04:002010-06-24T15:05:33.720-04:00I am not a cultural relativist. Some things are j...I am not a cultural relativist. Some things are just wrong, and "tradition" does not excuse them.<br /><br />As for the abuse of the children at Cornell, it's truly abhorant. <br /><br />It is representative of a culture, that is our own, that is still preoccupied with enforcing strict gender binaries and with controlling women's sexuality. It tangles up with all the sexist and homophobic behavior we endure in other realms. <br /><br />I am sure, when hearing about this physician, I"m not the only one reminded of the sad case of <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/reimer/" rel="nofollow">David REimer</a>, who was raised as a girl when his "well-meaning" doctor decided that was how to deal with the damage to his penis. Because of course everyone agreed that children have no gender that is not culturally imposed.<br /><br />Or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy" rel="nofollow">Walter Freeman</a>, who threw himself into lobotomizing patients with icepicks, leading to that period of medical history where being depressed or gay was sufficent to torture you and destroy your brain.<br /> <br />How this Cornell guy gets away with it, is the big question. And the parents should also be ashamed of themselves.IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-28218884731499339212010-06-24T14:00:42.550-04:002010-06-24T14:00:42.550-04:00In some ways, I wish you and others who sent me to...In some ways, I wish you and others who sent me to the Bioethics Forum hadn't. After reading that article, I could have easily dismissed it as "media spin" - tucked the whole, horrible idea away from my heart and mind and hoped that it was just some journalist trying to grab a headline and sell some newspapers.<br /><br />These two women clearly know what they're talking about. As do you.<br /><br />The important thing is that we get this guy to stop. Now.<br /><br />Hopefully, this kind of exposure will do just that.<br /><br />Thanks for all your help, Doc.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-30614156970294668672010-06-24T13:52:10.655-04:002010-06-24T13:52:10.655-04:00Elizabeth, thanks for spreading the link I gave yo...Elizabeth, thanks for spreading the link I gave you. It is a very good article from a group I believe to be one of the top-notch bioethics forums in the US. When they weigh in, I usually listen.<br /><br />What I would not have given to be a mouse in multiple medical staff surgery dept. meetings. What I would not have given to have been a mouse in the IRB meetings. What I would not give to see a few sets of files.<br /><br />I have a sick feeling this was all hidden in plain sight, with very technical language and boring clinical run-on sentences. <br /><br />I find it interesting that Poppas' co-authors bailed on him. People don't generally bail on a new surgical procedure they have helped propose. unless they no longer believe in what they are doing or are proved wrong. I wonder if at some point Yang and Felsen realized they had been duped themselves.<br /><br />We now know you can't simply "surgically assign" a physical sex to an intersex child. The child has to grow up with his/her own sexual awareness of self.<br /><br />My guess is these families are simply looking for relief from the difficulties associated with raising an intersex child, or, as Chris says in an earlier comment, a desire to relieve their own discomfort. I am also well aware of the ways physicians (and clergy) can "couch" a discussion in an attempt to sway a family to a particular mindset. I would love to be a mouse in the room when Dr. Poppas explains his surgery to parents.<br /><br />And what I would not give to be on an IRB that looks him right in the eye, and says, "Ok, Doctor. Help me out here. My understanding of the federal regulations of research on children is that it is legal in the following ways...(recite the four conditions in which have been deemed where the benefits outweigh the risks for the patient, society, medical knowledge and knowledge of a disease state)...Ok. Explain to me how you can prove that the act an adult male applying a stimulatory device of which the result is a sensation universally perceived as sexual pleasure, to a little girl's genitals is less harmful to her psychologically than the perceived stigma of her intersex condition. Explain to me the means by which you have tested your assertions that this child's genitals, as they now are, will be a problem in the future. Cite me some studies on this using adult subjects. Show me some data here. Because until you can do this to my satisfaction, you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting this past my IRB."<br /><br />The wisest pediatrician I trained under in my clincal years often remarked to families in a wide variety of difficult medical circumstances other than this one, "Don't treat your children to fix yourself."Kirkepiscatoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02651684515435040529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-85790779305799278612010-06-24T13:28:37.198-04:002010-06-24T13:28:37.198-04:00To harm a child is abhorable. I read some bits on...To harm a child is abhorable. I read some bits on a the shakesville and Sociological Images blogs about the whole Cornell thing. Genital mutilation and sexual assault of a minor in the name of science...how can that even be justified? <br /><br />Mutilation in the name of tradition or science is still mutilation. For a country which claims to be in support of children, we sure do a hell of a job of living up to it. <br /><br />And we wonder why people have such screwed up relationships with their own bodies - it starts at birth! UGH!Geeklethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01102751008887092513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-5736937417661592352010-06-24T12:54:21.251-04:002010-06-24T12:54:21.251-04:00Thanks to all of you for all your comments. I hope...Thanks to all of you for all your comments. I hope you all go and sign the petition to stop FGM at Cornell.<br /><br />This is important on so many levels - for women, for intersex children, for medical ethics . . .<br /><br />I still find my body shaking every time I think about it.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.com