tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post3662252976163252944..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: The Kudzu of Mission CreepElizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-68526282715502907352012-05-10T16:54:20.534-04:002012-05-10T16:54:20.534-04:00. Michael - It's a great blog post, isn't .... Michael - It's a great blog post, isn't it?<br /><br />Amen Elizabeth. I have forwarded to so many others.J. Michael Poveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17835759800684119909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-9079394002149673272012-05-10T07:36:14.392-04:002012-05-10T07:36:14.392-04:00It's next to nothing and it's still insult...It's next to nothing and it's still insulting. It's meant to be. Which gets to my point about why oh why do bishops meet there in the first place?Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-18792242261065633452012-05-09T22:52:25.604-04:002012-05-09T22:52:25.604-04:00Yes, they should give more, but it's different...Yes, they should give more, but it's different than claiming they give nothing. Just trying to keep the facts out there and not let everything get "rounded to the nearest 0 or 50,000.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-33110070827166034402012-05-09T21:43:20.347-04:002012-05-09T21:43:20.347-04:00Thanks for the link where I found this piece of in...Thanks for the link where I found this piece of information: the Diocese of Texas. . . . gives 5% of a $7.9 million budget to the general church. <br /><br />That's a little like leaving a nickle tip at a fancy restaurant. It's insulting.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-70378168768759240562012-05-09T21:34:21.662-04:002012-05-09T21:34:21.662-04:00The Diocese of Texas, does, in fact, contribute to...The Diocese of Texas, does, in fact, contribute to the national church. Not as much as is asked of it, but they do give regularly/annually. For proof:<br /><br />http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/dioceses/diocesan_support_for_churchwid.html<br /><br />Steven Thomas<br />New York, NYAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-36561333729301260812012-05-09T20:40:32.972-04:002012-05-09T20:40:32.972-04:00Anonymous - Your post went to my spam folder. I al...Anonymous - Your post went to my spam folder. I almost didn't open it. Please leave your name next time. And yes, the DioTX has not paid its pledge to 815 for years.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-77056147022244353222012-05-09T20:34:41.042-04:002012-05-09T20:34:41.042-04:00Camp Allen is, I believe, in the Diocese of Texas....Camp Allen is, I believe, in the Diocese of Texas. Are you certain that this diocese hasn't been making a pledge to the national church for years? I don't know for certain, but was surprised to read that. I was under the impression that the Dio of Texas wasn't as conservative as some of the other dioceses in the state.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-11967842755104930392012-05-09T16:29:42.212-04:002012-05-09T16:29:42.212-04:00David - That proposal is one of many already on th...David - That proposal is one of many already on the table. One bishop has actually submitted a resolution to that effect. <br /><br />Question is: What majority? Simple? Super? 2/3? <br /><br />I like what the UMC does: Everyone of the 1,000 delegates (not deputies) - which includes bishops - gets a vote but Bishops can only speak on the floor if 2/3 of the convention approve it.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-49112081968677779402012-05-09T16:23:43.481-04:002012-05-09T16:23:43.481-04:00Why not a unicameral governing body elected at lar...Why not a unicameral governing body elected at large from each Diocese with no fixed number of lay or clerical members, proportional to Diocesan church membership numbers, one person, one vote, majority rule.Rev. David Justin Lynchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00250968772752560668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-65799786758431456142012-05-09T13:27:06.934-04:002012-05-09T13:27:06.934-04:00J. Michael - It's a great blog post, isn't...J. Michael - It's a great blog post, isn't it?Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-18032048058924818122012-05-09T12:30:22.434-04:002012-05-09T12:30:22.434-04:00Many thanks Elizabeth for your pertinent comments ...Many thanks Elizabeth for your pertinent comments on Dean Ferguson's blog. You are "right on".<br /><br />Love<br /><br />MichaelJ. Michael Poveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17835759800684119909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-74064848382415697912012-05-09T09:19:05.927-04:002012-05-09T09:19:05.927-04:00Looks like they just cleaned up the url. Here'...Looks like they just cleaned up the url. Here's the new link (working as of 9am on 5/9):<br /><a href="http://www.episcopalchurch.org/page/episcopal-churchs-opportunity-church-21st-century" rel="nofollow">http://www.episcopalchurch.org/page/episcopal-churchs-opportunity-church-21st-century</a>Bill Josephnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-13097711891921718472012-05-08T23:33:47.531-04:002012-05-08T23:33:47.531-04:00David, Thank you for your visit and your wonderful...David, Thank you for your visit and your wonderful comments. <br /><br />I notice that the PB's address has been taken down and the link in this post no longer works.<br /><br />Curious, that.<br /><br />Or, was it something I said?Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-25864982468585148282012-05-08T21:51:08.380-04:002012-05-08T21:51:08.380-04:00Thanks TomThanks TomElizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-52912916663129264432012-05-08T20:58:30.185-04:002012-05-08T20:58:30.185-04:00You are a hoot! And a wonderful boon to this churc...You are a hoot! And a wonderful boon to this church I so love and despise.<br /><br />Tom Gibson<br />St. Mark's Cocoa, Fltom gibsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-18194988218592725432012-05-08T20:44:33.102-04:002012-05-08T20:44:33.102-04:00I tend to agree with you, Unknown. Please leave yo...I tend to agree with you, Unknown. Please leave your name next time.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-85975182700662534392012-05-08T20:12:38.129-04:002012-05-08T20:12:38.129-04:00Thank you, Elizabeth. IMHO, the two dates associat...Thank you, Elizabeth. IMHO, the two dates associated with the greatest number of "losers" in The Episcopal Church:<br /><br />1940: The Presiding Bishop required to resign all jurisdictions.<br /><br />1982: The Presiding Bishop given the title "Primate of The Episcopal Church."Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05630909687487873471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-31621291356200759202012-05-08T16:24:48.031-04:002012-05-08T16:24:48.031-04:00dearest Elizabeth:
powerful post today about +Kat...dearest Elizabeth:<br /><br />powerful post today about +Katherine’s address. <br /><br />powerful because it open up spaces for reflection, thought, exchange and reflection in what threatened to be what i sense to be pre-mature and reactive legislative process.<br /><br />the Church has been through a lot in the past couple of decades- i would even call it trauma- and it is my sense that there is a ton of deconstruction, discussion and discernment which needs to take place before the Church is anywhere nearing being able to ‘recasts’ itself for the future. <br /> <br />the sort of issues and history i’m talking about are not the ‘headliners’ i.e. the election of an honestly partnered gay or lesbian priest, but rather the deeper issues: how the Church dealt-with/failed-to-deal-with what in retrospect was Ruach’s sacred process; how the Church fails to engage dissent and public contempt; how the Church is so legislatively minded that it has to resort to secular courts to settle its disputes, and perhaps even, why the ‘official Church’ is feeling so threatened by the prophetic voice of OWS that she effectively ducks out on the discussions and reduces it all to the issue of an unoccupied lease on empty Church real estate.<br /><br />such a process, if it is to be honest and profitable can only be from-the-ground up, where the ‘official Church’s role’ would be to listen, to provide the technological resources to maximize both participation and transparency. the current budget would appear to be a reflection of the crisis the Church sees itself to be in, and my suggestion would be that rather re-acting, we need open ourselves up to what is really going on, the issues appearances disguise and our dreams for the Church Ruach calls us to be.<br /><br />to quote Mother Linda Grenz:<br />I think the postmodern age moves us from machine (linear, rational, atomistic, mechanistic "fixes", etc.) to the network (organic, circular, connectivity/relationships, etc.). Trying to fix a broken machine (modern age solution) will just get us a 1950's machine running a bit better. I believe we are called to be brave enough to step out and allow a new way of being church emerge. Can't do that, though, without letting go of much of the old ways of doing things. If we don't stop what we are doing now we will not have the time, money or energy to discern, much less follow, God's leading into the future. <br /><br />dearest Elizabeth, thank you for this post. my sense is it is only the first of ....... severalDavidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05783912162459370943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-71963722091192995522012-05-08T14:27:12.214-04:002012-05-08T14:27:12.214-04:00Mimi - I had the same thought, reflected in Bonnie...Mimi - I had the same thought, reflected in Bonnie Anderson's quote, about the PB's address. It's lobbying, is what it is, and on the church's dime - which, of course, is your and my dimes. <br /><br />If our bishops spent more time leading the churches in their dioceses and less time worrying about how to keep their purple shirts, we just might see more vibrant congregations, healthier dioceses and a stronger church.<br /><br />Mission creep. Time to cut back the kudzu.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-80558163900550393802012-05-08T14:22:31.465-04:002012-05-08T14:22:31.465-04:00BJ - Actually, why don't bishops Skype the way...BJ - Actually, why don't bishops Skype the way AF does every Monday night? Whether you know it or not, y'all are modeling a new way to be church. I think they call it "emergent church". Who knew that a religious order would lead the way? Wait a minute. Isn't that part of our history? Why yes, in fact, I think it is. Thanks for the visit and the comment, BJ.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-30129349257059200812012-05-08T14:08:09.116-04:002012-05-08T14:08:09.116-04:00I am sick - ye verily, unto death - of hearing peo...<i>I am sick - ye verily, unto death - of hearing people in power talk about 'sacrifice' without demonstrating even a willingness to model that for the rest of the people of God.</i><br /><br />As I am, Elizabeth. In times of tight budgets, are we to send more money to the higher levels, even as we cut the flow to the lower levels, lower meaning a 'lesser' role than that of a bishop? Is it Rome, or is it Rowan who influences the folks in the top tier?<br /><br />And let's not forget the words of Bonnie Anderson, President of the House of Deputies:<br /><br /><i>I also told her (the PB) that I am concerned about the use of churchwide resources to lobby General Convention on only one side of a legislative issue.</i><br /><br />Yes, the PB should have a diocese, and bishops should serve in a cathedral or in a parish.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-80824420770321565732012-05-08T13:51:31.212-04:002012-05-08T13:51:31.212-04:00BRAVO!!! I have been wondering this same thing fo...BRAVO!!! I have been wondering this same thing for ages. Why don't the Bishops meet once a year instead of twice??? If the work of the Church is to be done on the local level, it would be wonderful to have the Bishops working WITH us... be out front and lead us in that work.<br /><br />Sister BJSister BJ Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398039848223155840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-52266397000078155802012-05-08T13:50:43.578-04:002012-05-08T13:50:43.578-04:00Thanks, Muthah+. I really have the PB's addres...Thanks, Muthah+. I really have the PB's address to thank for the inspiration. Suddenly, it was so clear. It's 'mission creep'.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-31394772222300325532012-05-08T13:49:47.285-04:002012-05-08T13:49:47.285-04:00Thanks, Bishop Dan. I'm delighted to find an a...Thanks, Bishop Dan. I'm delighted to find an area in which we both agree. I also think bishops ought to be deans of cathedrals and/or rector of a church - depending on the size of the diocese.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-1639848645534774162012-05-08T13:27:30.106-04:002012-05-08T13:27:30.106-04:00As always, Elizabeth, you hit the nail on the head...As always, Elizabeth, you hit the nail on the head.Muthah+https://www.blogger.com/profile/10589837671378205837noreply@blogger.com