tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post4505092619218131574..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: Oops! I did it again!Elizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-69709270068810864122007-10-08T08:15:00.000-04:002007-10-08T08:15:00.000-04:00Pilgrim and Psalm,Okay, enough. If you really hav...Pilgrim and Psalm,<BR/><BR/>Okay, enough. If you really have to ask if I would bless a "menage a trois" you insult the integrity of my priesthood. <BR/><BR/>As I said, you folk on the extreme Right have made a false idol of the image of "inclusivity" you have of the Left.<BR/><BR/>Your false idol has blinded you from seeing the full picture of our humanity and dignity and integrity and has ruined some of your brain cells so you can no longer think logically or reasonably.<BR/><BR/>This is a blog, not an interactive blackboard. I have answered your questions to the extent I'm going to. <BR/><BR/>I am the pastor of 300 family congregation. This is a holiday and the office is closed. Even so, I am getting ready to drive for an hour with a man who was confirmed at St. Paul's, who has finally, in the past 7 years, conquered his addiction to alcohol. <BR/><BR/>He says he is "spiritual" but not "religious." "Too many people get hurt in church," he says.<BR/><BR/>But, his mother is dying. She moved away about 15 years ago and hasn't really been to church much, having not found a 'home' like St. Paul's. <BR/><BR/>But, her son wants to make funeral plans. It's his way of dealing with the fact that she's dying. He knows he will be in collapse when she does die, so he thinks, for many reasons, it's time do this now. This is a holiday, and this is the only time he really has. So, I'm going with him to visit his mother.<BR/><BR/>We got to the part about scripture and hymns for her funeral service and that's when he decided that he really needed to include his mom in the process (I knew he would. They always do at this point.)<BR/><BR/>So, you'll excuse me for not taking time to answer your bibical inquires. <BR/><BR/>I don't think they are sincere anyway. You ask questions in the same ways the Parisees and Scribes asked them of Jesus - looking for a way to trick him.<BR/><BR/>If you are serious about studying scripture with me, I suggest you sign up for a course at the Theological School at Drew, where I am adjunct faculty.<BR/><BR/>Or, you could move here near Chatham for a year and take part in my weekly Bible Study.<BR/><BR/>Or, you could simply hear the answer you want by asking your own pastor.<BR/><BR/>Me? I'm off to do my Mother's work. Nice talking with you. Have a great day. God Bless you.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-90434992585675072592007-10-08T07:39:00.000-04:002007-10-08T07:39:00.000-04:00Ms. Kaeton responded:"Absolutely, positively, with...Ms. Kaeton responded:<BR/><BR/>"Absolutely, positively, without a whisper of question or a nano-second's worth of hesitation: YES."<BR/><BR/>Okay, thanks. That's one question. Now, as to the three people who want a public blessing for their relationship: Would you? And if not, on what moral, legal, or scriptural grounds would you refuse?Perry Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13602968076084080664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-52767470811699578422007-10-07T23:41:00.000-04:002007-10-07T23:41:00.000-04:00Thank you for the clarity of your response, Elizab...Thank you for the clarity of your response, Elizabeth.<BR/><BR/>I read your post on 10/4, the same day we read 1 Corinthians 9:1-15 from the Daily Office. What struck me (and prompted my question) was the contrast between the two. Do you see the difference that I saw?psalm37https://www.blogger.com/profile/07003190116767564619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-21481267558925121982007-10-06T19:18:00.000-04:002007-10-06T19:18:00.000-04:00Pilgrim asks: "If you were praying on an evening,...Pilgrim asks: "If you were praying on an evening, and that overwhelming conviction came to your heart that the Holy Spirit was talking directly to you; telling you to stop same sex blessings: would you submit? Yes or no."<BR/><BR/>Absolutely, positively, without a whisper of question or a nano-second's worth of hesitation: YES.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-48935255090010492122007-10-06T18:54:00.000-04:002007-10-06T18:54:00.000-04:00Elizabeth,I did not ask if you were Mormon, nor di...Elizabeth,<BR/><BR/>I did not ask if you were Mormon, nor did I ask where you are from. I know you are not from the Global South. I did ask that if three people walked into your office and asked for a public blessing for their relationship, would you perform the ceremony, and if not, why not? What cultural, moral, or scriptural terms would you couch your denial in?<BR/><BR/>I, too, along with Psalm 37, like to see an answer to his question. Many liberal Episcopalians say that the Holy Spirit is driving the changes in TEC today, that when the general convention votes, the Holy Spirit guides the delegates' hearts and minds. So Psalm 37 - and my - question is:<BR/><BR/>If you were praying on an evening, and that overwhelming conviction came to your heart that the Holy Spirit was talking directly to you; telling you to stop same sex blessings: would you submit? Yes or no.<BR/><BR/>Thank you.Perry Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13602968076084080664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-89805298052420733232007-10-05T18:34:00.000-04:002007-10-05T18:34:00.000-04:00KJ,The capability of abstract thought is a skill, ...KJ,<BR/><BR/>The capability of abstract thought is a skill, apparently, which is not uniformly achieved by all.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-46245257517082259822007-10-05T18:11:00.000-04:002007-10-05T18:11:00.000-04:00I don't undersand. Why do so many people professi...I don't undersand. Why do so many people professing to be Christian have such little insight into the nature of God, his desire to be in relationship with us, and through us, with others? <BR/><BR/>It's as if Jesus never was.KJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15701224049914946896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-56254785960431116112007-10-05T08:02:00.000-04:002007-10-05T08:02:00.000-04:00Psalm,Oh, you poor dear. You really are confused, ...Psalm,<BR/><BR/>Oh, you poor dear. You really are confused, aren't you?<BR/><BR/>Read my response again. Slowly. Clear your mind of any judgement or preconcieved ideas or images before you begin.<BR/><BR/>It's awfully hard to read for an answer to a question when you already have one formulated in your head.<BR/><BR/>Or, ask Pilgrim. You both probably hang out together at another uber-Christian blog. <BR/><BR/>He seems like a reasonable sort. Ask him.<BR/><BR/>I think he may be able to explain it to you in a way that you will understand.<BR/><BR/>He may not agree with my answer, but he does "hear" it.<BR/><BR/>You seem incapable of hearing anything I say.<BR/><BR/>Ah, and there it is, hiding in plain view: the microcosim of the macrocosim.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-61446170561874246382007-10-05T07:42:00.000-04:002007-10-05T07:42:00.000-04:00I don't understand. Why is the answer to Pilgrim'...I don't understand. Why is the answer to Pilgrim's question not 'No'?psalm37https://www.blogger.com/profile/07003190116767564619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-68626007791249957782007-10-04T19:31:00.000-04:002007-10-04T19:31:00.000-04:00Pilgrim,I think you are hung up on the word "inclu...Pilgrim,<BR/><BR/>I think you are hung up on the word "inclusive". It's really become a false idol that the Right has made of its image of the Left.<BR/><BR/>I am Christian who is an Episcopalian who is an Anglican. <BR/><BR/>I am not a Mormon. Neither am I from a culture, like some in the Global South, which actively practices polygamy (but winks and nods when the White people are around).<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I have blessed the non-sexual covenant of FRIENDSHIP between four people who considered themselves to be family. <BR/><BR/>Each had been abandoned by their families for various reasons: addiction, rebellion, gender identity, sexual orientation.<BR/><BR/>They had come to know a sense of real family in their (let me say it again, boys and girls, wo we're all REAL clear) non-sexual relationships with each other. <BR/><BR/>Hear me cleary: I bless COVENANTS. <BR/><BR/>As Jesus said, "What is bound on earth is bound in heaven . . ." and I think Jesus is well pleased when we make - and the church blesses, in his name - sacred vows of honesty, love, mutality, fidelity, and respect.<BR/><BR/>Don't you?Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-17716193976480465492007-10-04T18:06:00.000-04:002007-10-04T18:06:00.000-04:00Fair enough. Because you addressed Kip and Katie ...Fair enough. Because you addressed Kip and Katie before the poem, I assumed that you were addressing the poem to them in the context of the ceremony. As the kids say, "my bad."<BR/><BR/>I do want to ask, if inclusive is inclusive: if - and when - three people come into your office and say they have lived in a committed, sexually exclusive relationship for the last five years and now want a public Blessing... Will you do that as well?Perry Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13602968076084080664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-19115563437138767552007-10-04T14:03:00.000-04:002007-10-04T14:03:00.000-04:00Pilgrim,Just to be clear: The Apache Prayer was n...Pilgrim,<BR/><BR/>Just to be clear: The Apache Prayer was not part of the service. It was something I found as I was writing the essay which I decided to use to close the essay.<BR/><BR/>The service itself pretty much follows the prayer book outline of service. We used the story from Ruth and Matthew 5:13-16. <BR/><BR/>The Blessing was Trinitarian.<BR/><BR/>The path? Well, it was, you should excuse the expression, pretty "straight"forward.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-54964968884377755842007-10-04T13:57:00.001-04:002007-10-04T13:57:00.001-04:00Psalm,Your question is in no way difficult for me....Psalm,<BR/><BR/>Your question is in no way difficult for me.<BR/><BR/>Apparently, the situation is quite reversed.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-56484083663508659042007-10-04T13:57:00.000-04:002007-10-04T13:57:00.000-04:00What a beautiful Apache prayer! I hope someday to...What a beautiful Apache prayer! I hope someday to have the chance to use it.Malt Viquorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15907010371582667544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-3856207539576177182007-10-04T12:20:00.000-04:002007-10-04T12:20:00.000-04:00I find it interesting that there is no mention of ...I find it interesting that there is no mention of God -- or any "Higher Power" for that matter, -- in your "Apache Blessing;" that in times of travail the covenanted pair are only enjoined to look to each other and not to God for help and sustenance. <BR/><BR/>There doesn't appear to be any loophole in the Bible for their circumstances i.e. "Thou shalt not commit adultery, unless thou art in danger of losing thy health insurance."<BR/><BR/>What kind of a path did you lead these people down?Perry Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13602968076084080664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-51334316234038115532007-10-04T12:08:00.000-04:002007-10-04T12:08:00.000-04:00I am sorry if the question is difficult. You do n...I am sorry if the question is difficult. You do not need to reply. Thanks anyway.psalm37https://www.blogger.com/profile/07003190116767564619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-85604749064103870342007-10-04T11:08:00.000-04:002007-10-04T11:08:00.000-04:00Psalm 37,Please help me understand: Why are you a...Psalm 37,<BR/><BR/>Please help me understand: Why are you asking the question?Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-15933165834405960092007-10-04T10:43:00.000-04:002007-10-04T10:43:00.000-04:00Please help me understand. Why is the answer to m...Please help me understand. Why is the answer to my question not 'yes'?psalm37https://www.blogger.com/profile/07003190116767564619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-47625122847507981752007-10-04T08:51:00.000-04:002007-10-04T08:51:00.000-04:00Dear Psalm 37 (AKA "Anonymous" - there seem to be ...Dear Psalm 37 (AKA "Anonymous" - there seem to be so many of you!),<BR/><BR/>Let me be clear: You are asking that if "God" asked me to stop blessing the covenants people make between each other, would I do it?<BR/><BR/>Here's my question: Why would God ever do that? Covenants are pleasing in the sight of the Lord.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-231860397949581942007-10-04T07:52:00.000-04:002007-10-04T07:52:00.000-04:00If your God asked, would you stop?If your God asked, would you stop?psalm37https://www.blogger.com/profile/07003190116767564619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-22180815265724488092007-10-03T06:24:00.000-04:002007-10-03T06:24:00.000-04:00You bet, Alice.And do tell, how is it that you can...You bet, Alice.<BR/><BR/>And do tell, how is it that you can recognize it when you see it?Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-69453677391880070762007-10-02T23:19:00.000-04:002007-10-02T23:19:00.000-04:00And indeed defiant.And indeed defiant.Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-57272205535044159962007-10-02T22:07:00.000-04:002007-10-02T22:07:00.000-04:00Elizabeth -- when my (heterosexual) partner and I ...Elizabeth -- when my (heterosexual) partner and I got married in 1998, we used the "liturgy proposed for same sex blessings" at the prior GC. Why?: Because it "made all things new" in its breath-taking and non-sexist awe at holy unionsusankayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15513759507628166408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-46911906586594889862007-10-02T08:59:00.000-04:002007-10-02T08:59:00.000-04:00you are a very naughty ladyyou are a very naughty ladyDBWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07327574529287324041noreply@blogger.com