tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post4780299168240994679..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: Where are the women?Elizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-13098750712610683702015-05-09T20:15:56.023-04:002015-05-09T20:15:56.023-04:00So, Charlotte - the 11th Bishop of DioCPA not with...So, Charlotte - the 11th Bishop of DioCPA not withstanding, the statistics reveal a very different picture. Very. Different. <br /><br />To suggest that those women who have submitted their names for election to the episcopacy haven't read up on what the "experts" have to ssay, much less studied the the diocesan profile and other information about the people and place to which they feel they are being called, much less spent countless hours in personal prayer, private therapy and colleague groups is to suggest something really insulting about women which I don't think - at least I hope - you intend. <br /><br />C'mon!<br /><br />You say, real discernment is "not about categories" and then present a different set of categories. Truth is: it's about both. If it weren't, we'd have a whole lot more diversity in the HOB. <br /><br />C'mon!<br /><br />Here's another piece of truth: Many dioceses - the DioCPA not withstanding - are not healthy places. Indeed, many of them are decidedly not healthy. They've been playing shell games with the budget and living on "dead people's money" for so long their anxiety level is palpable. So, the FIT you talk about - the DioCPA not withstanding - is often someone who will hold their hands while everyone rearranges deck chairs on the Titanic. <br /><br />C'mon. <br /><br />I'm afraid I've been around the church - including the DioCPA - for many, many years. I've been in one episcopal election, held the hands of and prayed without ceasing for several women who have been in episcopal elections, and been on three search committees for bishops. I know stuff. A lot of it is written in this blog. <br /><br />I'm fully willing to admit that there are exceptions to the rule - the DioCPA seems to be one of them - but the statistics back me up. <br /><br />Sorry. Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-12752126745008401132015-05-08T22:23:47.388-04:002015-05-08T22:23:47.388-04:00Very odd but interesting article. Two points at t...Very odd but interesting article. Two points at the least, to make. This slate for PB follows the double term of a very inspiring and very unexpected woman bishop, who, be it noted, had never served as a parish priest before becoming bishop--so, I wonder about the sweeping generalizations made about how women are elected, or not. Second, the recent election of Canon Audrey Scanlan to position of 11th Bishop of the Diocese of Central Pennsylvania was not at all achieved by any sort of caucus of women in the diocese. Not only is she female, she is not conservative. The search committee alone did the work, found the candidates, did the discernment with an intense focus on FIT between candidates and needs of the diocese, and nominated one woman and two men to the slate. There were more than two women who submitted their names among the more than 40 candidates from which the search committee chose their nominees. I suggest that something other than 'women' 'gays' 'lesbians' 'people of color' 'spiritual' and 'leader' is essential for true FIT between diocese and candidates for the episcopacy. Real discernment is not about categories at all. It's about who you all are, when you are, where you are, and how smart your search committee is, or at the least, your Standing Committee is about the members and chair of the search committee. Come on. Spend some time reading Russell Crabtree and Bob Gallagher (sorry, both men but both with a better bead on congregational/diocesan health than any women who've written on the subject). Then figure out how to talk about health and change. You'll stand out, whether you're male, female, gay, straight, of any race or nation, liberal or conservative. All the rest is talk.Charlotte Weaver-Gelzernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-52803253351541118822015-05-07T12:00:13.949-04:002015-05-07T12:00:13.949-04:00Grace - turns out Susan, and all the rest of us we...Grace - turns out Susan, and all the rest of us were wrong about the 5 year minimum for PB. It's a 5 year minimum ordained as priest before one can be elected bishop. Not PB. Bishop. And, no restrictions on diocesan or suffragan, although no suffragan has ever been elected PB. <br /><br />Which, of course, makes it even worse. It was somehow a little softer when we thought there was a five year minimum.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-64182397207682984832015-05-07T11:57:35.718-04:002015-05-07T11:57:35.718-04:00Rev Sylvia - I remember talking with Marge Christi...Rev Sylvia - I remember talking with Marge Christie, one of the founders of EWC and asking when she thought the first lesbian would be elected bishop. She said - rather emphatically - that the first gay bishop would be male. And, Caucasian. "The church can't deal with two things out of the "norm" at once," she said. "It's enough to be a woman, not a lesbian woman."<br /><br />I think she's right. So, NJ may have been ready for a woman as bishop, but a Mexican woman as bishop? No, not yet. It's horrible, isn't it? And, their loss.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-3414710761550831272015-05-06T15:55:11.931-04:002015-05-06T15:55:11.931-04:00I mentioned the "diocesan, with five years of...I mentioned the "diocesan, with five years of service" qualification to my bishop (Rob Hirschfeld - a [straight, white] man of deep prayer still feeling his way into what it means to be a leader in the church as currently configured, and we love him for it) last night and he said there is no such requirement. Who is correct?<br /><br />(And I'm sitting right here on the bench of "women who, when someone says 'You'll be bishop some day,' reply 'Good Lord, deliver us'.")Gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394524397229848948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-43503457393157412492015-05-06T02:10:48.023-04:002015-05-06T02:10:48.023-04:00I was a nominee for 12th Bishop of New Jersey in 2...I was a nominee for 12th Bishop of New Jersey in 2013. It was an extraordinary experience. I'm still discerning whether it was a blessing not to be elected because though the Diocese has many challenges to face, I truly felt called to lead the diocese through those challenges. But it would have meant a huge shift in how the Diocese operates. Maybe the church is not ready for the kind of radical shift in leadership that women and ethnic minorities represent. I figured I was a long shot because I'm a woman and also of Mexican ancestry, but it was a great honor and a deeply meaningful experience. I'm glad I traveled that road. When will the church be ready for the shift in leadership needed?RevSylvia+https://www.blogger.com/profile/01482809678681963353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-39160364094938983372015-05-03T11:11:46.592-04:002015-05-03T11:11:46.592-04:00Absolutely: Leadership ought to be a reflection of...Absolutely: Leadership ought to be a reflection of membership. And, prejudice doesn't belong anywhere in the church. <br /><br />I happen to believe that, as the job is presently described, women are not well suited for the role of bishop. However, many of those bishops who are women have made a substantial change in the role and have done exceptionally well in creating a healthier diocese where they are. If we could elect more women into the episcopacy, I think we really could change the church. <br /><br />Someone else's mileage may vary.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-27676157237102787732015-05-03T07:59:36.808-04:002015-05-03T07:59:36.808-04:00I am not Episcopalian nor have I ever belonged to ...I am not Episcopalian nor have I ever belonged to a church that had a hierarchy of individuals. I have no knowledge of your different levels in terms of responsibilities or power. That said I am wondering if there is something about the job of bishop you think women are better suited to? Or is it just that you think leadership should be a better reflection of membership? Or something else?8thdayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17139355263412766126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-5883062282750484782015-05-02T23:48:11.594-04:002015-05-02T23:48:11.594-04:00You're right, of course, SCG Women are rarely ...You're right, of course, SCG Women are rarely in those "fast track positions" from whence bishop nominees come. So, even if women feel called to the episcopacy and wish to be "seen", they remain "invisible". <br /><br />Sexism stinks. <br /><br />But, in terms of the one woman who was eligible, in all fairness, her husband had recently died in a tragic bike accident. She's still grieving. Can't really blame her. Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-39626293931896009062015-05-02T22:50:37.190-04:002015-05-02T22:50:37.190-04:00There's another issue that still exists, espec...There's another issue that still exists, especially in some places in the church: women can be priests, if they'll be an associate. There are still parishes where the laity want "a bloke, beard, bad breath," as was once described on the Vicar of Dibley to be the rector. How many women are deans of cathedrals? And isn't it telling that the one woman who was eligible for nomination to be PB said, "Nah, that's OK." <br />There's a need for a whole lotta shaking up...from the ground up... in the church.SCGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08162762233972733978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-62161254820647805282015-05-02T17:44:50.620-04:002015-05-02T17:44:50.620-04:00Thanks for your comment, Josephine. Hopefully, thi...Thanks for your comment, Josephine. Hopefully, this slate will be a real wake up call to the women of the church. My standard line when people have said to me, "You should be bishop," is to smile broadly and say politely, "Thank you, but I'm so glad God loves me more than that."Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-50717679631124657532015-05-02T14:33:54.867-04:002015-05-02T14:33:54.867-04:00I had a similar reaction when I saw the slate. I t...I had a similar reaction when I saw the slate. I think my thought process was something like "well *that* says something about the church." :\<br /><br />I'm one of those women priests who gets teased about being a bishop and responds "don't you curse me." Bishop as currently expressed in the church? Not a chance. And yet there *are* so many good strong women leaders. Hell, there are strong prophetic male leaders too but the good ones have no interest in the office of "administrator of the sinking ship."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15552694518825141827noreply@blogger.com