tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post5072718705653557537..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: My Chosen LifestyleElizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-87031511178203219492009-07-30T00:06:00.688-04:002009-07-30T00:06:00.688-04:00No-one *needs* sex, anymore than diabetics *need* ...<i>No-one *needs* sex, anymore than diabetics *need* sugar.</i><br /><br />What gets me is the deep level of dysfunction in such a statement. Sex as danger, as an evil necessity, as a sick craving. <br /><br />Really? Are people that animalistic? Are they really just about the rutting? Hell, I'm uncomfortable about sex and think little of it, but at least I'm aware that's a problem!MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-12239322249027088432009-07-29T19:06:05.826-04:002009-07-29T19:06:05.826-04:00The problem is whether or not being gay is a patho...The problem is whether or not being gay is a pathology, or a normal variant. See my post on this at Friends of Jake.<br /><br />As summed up <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200809/gay-marriage" rel="nofollow">by Andrew Sullivan</a>:<br /><i>The premise used to be that homosexuality was an activity, that gays were people who chose to behave badly; or, if they weren’t choosing to behave badly, were nonetheless suffering from a form of sickness or, in the words of the Vatican, an “objective disorder.” And so the question of whether to permit the acts and activities of such disordered individuals was a legitimate area of legislation and regulation.<br /><br />But when gays are seen as the same as straights—as individuals; as normal, well-adjusted, human individuals—the argument changes altogether. The question becomes a matter of how we treat a minority with an involuntary, defining characteristic along the lines of gender or race. And when a generation came of age that did not merely grasp this intellectually, but knew it from their own lives and friends and family members, then the logic for full equality became irresistible.</i>IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-47535956545452308732009-07-29T18:03:33.769-04:002009-07-29T18:03:33.769-04:00No-one *needs* sex, anymore than diabetics *need* ...<i>No-one *needs* sex, anymore than diabetics *need* sugar.</i><br /><br />I'm just left shaking my head in puzzled amusement at the Christian conservatives who make statements like this in direct contradiction to the explicit teachings of Scripture, which tell us that celibacy is a GIFT and NOT something everyone can embrace. Joan, have a look at Matthew 19:10-12 and 1 Corinthians 7 (especially, verses 1-2, 6-7, and 9). In short, Scripture affirms precisely what you have denied: some people <i>do</i> "need" sex. As Paul so memorably put it, "It is better to marry than to burn (with passion)."<br /><br />By the way, while I am certainly no medical expert, it is my understanding that diabetics, like everyone else, do <i>need</i> sugar, just in smaller and more carefully regulated quantities than non-diabetics. To confirm this, just ask a diabetic what happens when his blood sugar falls below safe levels. Your analogy actually undermines your assertion, not to mention that sexual orientation is not a disease.WilliamKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14545955266846478775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-70942326709457991592009-07-29T18:00:13.612-04:002009-07-29T18:00:13.612-04:00Ah, Mac, but you are one of my heroes in the churc...Ah, Mac, but you are one of my heroes in the church. I am blessed just to be able to call you my friend.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-48552492212707773692009-07-29T16:15:51.463-04:002009-07-29T16:15:51.463-04:00Dear Elizabeth,
Bless you; bless you; bless you! ...Dear Elizabeth,<br />Bless you; bless you; bless you! Bless you - your life and your style.Mac Thigpenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266251687413707044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-46475176660019771162009-07-28T23:35:51.234-04:002009-07-28T23:35:51.234-04:00May you never have to go through what you did thir...May you never have to go through what you did thirteen years ago with Ms Conroy (and hope she is doing OK now).<br /><br />When I had minor surgery last year (enough to knock me out), it never dawned on me to take our civil union certificate to the hospital with me. Maybe that's because I live in the [socialist] Republic of Vermont. Maybe, too, it's because the operation was at a little hospital just down the road where I'd been many times qua priest.<br /><br />Now, at the big hospital in a conservative city in Vermont, I would be more apt to carry said certificate... however, if something went wrong and people were nasty to A, I am sure I could say something to a parishioner (VP of something) and he'd get on their case.<br /><br />For a long time, though, I did carry the certificate and now it is rather worn even though it is only nine years old.<br /><br />OT: when Vermont's marriage law goes into effect, what do all of us with civil unions do? I think we can 'get married' on the tenth anniversary of our civil union which will make it our twentieth year together (so there, all those people who think that LGBTs are out of control).Caminantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16610142955176992982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-12688076155129817752009-07-28T22:15:05.801-04:002009-07-28T22:15:05.801-04:00To the rest of all y'all - thanks for such won...To the rest of all y'all - thanks for such wonderful supportive comments as well as your passion and outrage. <br /><br />This is one of those times I'm glad I have a blog.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-79801952469420974882009-07-28T22:14:48.394-04:002009-07-28T22:14:48.394-04:00To the rest of all y'all - thanks for such won...To the rest of all y'all - thanks for such wonderful supportive comments as well as your passion and outrage. <br /><br />This is one of those times I'm glad I have a blog.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-22742225317021061342009-07-28T20:49:58.676-04:002009-07-28T20:49:58.676-04:00Joan, Clearly, you have NO idea - none whatsoever ...Joan, Clearly, you have NO idea - none whatsoever - of what you are talking about.<br /><br />I invite you to our home, to see just how much "self control" we have. <br /><br />I would also invite you to get your mind off my genitals. <br /><br />Thank you.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-64279343708787797742009-07-28T17:59:37.011-04:002009-07-28T17:59:37.011-04:00John Bassett said...
"...Gay and open about...John Bassett said... <br /><br />"...Gay and open about it. OK, as long as you're a lay person. <br /><br />Gay and pretty secretive about it. You can be ordained to the priesthood. <br /><br />Gay and extremely secretive. You actually lie about it. You can be a bishop..."<br /><br />Actually and sadly I agree with John! This seems to be the truth in most of the Anglican Communion. <br /><br />Rowan's statement is merely "descriptive" of reality. No surprises there! Did anyone really expect a different reaction after the conversations and events of the last 3 years?<br /><br />blessings<br /><br />seraphseraphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13740813124721681934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-18701143858994155022009-07-28T17:37:17.952-04:002009-07-28T17:37:17.952-04:00Would that be considered, "Miter envy?" ...Would that be considered, "Miter envy?" <br /><br />Darling, I think Rowan is dreaming of a Tiara encrusted with jewels and pearls -- no mingie miter for the Pope of Anglican Land!!! My God, I feel the ten generations of ancestral Anglican and Episcopal priests and bishops twirling in their graves.<br /><br />Or, do you think it's more about the whole infallibility thing? <br /><br />Elizabeth, I think we can rest assured that Rowan already considers his musings ex cathedra to be infallible and binding on the faithful.<br /><br />Joie, I feel your concern for your parishioner and will add him and others in a like place to my daily prayers. <br /><br />Those of us in progressive parishes tend to forget that gay partnered wardens, etc. are rare.<br /><br />My greatest dissappointment in Cantuar's pronouncements was the BS about "chosen lifestyles" of our LGBTQ sisters amd brothers, when the church of Cantuar offers no choice.gerryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09992216957664459649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-33574500504590284252009-07-28T17:06:02.147-04:002009-07-28T17:06:02.147-04:00Aw, Elizabeth, you didn't upset me, the pain o...Aw, Elizabeth, you didn't upset me, the pain of the world upsets me now and then. I am grateful God gave me a smart brain. I am grateful God gave me perception a little better than the average bear (most of the time, anyway, except of course for the big DUH things in my life). I have been able to serve the human race for almost two decades with 'em, and make a good living for myself, and give to the things that matter in my life.<br /><br />But damn, it hurts when that smart brain and clever perceptive ability tells me things that, in my gut, and with the part of me that "listens intently", tell me "This is just soooooo wrong on sooooooo many levels." ARRRGHKirkepiscatoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02651684515435040529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-71532546639422202332009-07-28T16:20:26.826-04:002009-07-28T16:20:26.826-04:00I suspect it's the Lambeth Kool-Aid, but frank...I suspect it's the Lambeth Kool-Aid, but frankly all this "Chosen" talk is getting rather old.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16776805214662441928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-49321178376811252202009-07-28T15:07:40.281-04:002009-07-28T15:07:40.281-04:00In what seminary is it taught that theology is som...In what seminary is it taught that theology is somehow best learned by sticking one's fingers in one's ears and saying loudly "Na na na na I can't hear you"?Paul (A.)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07543357437252555101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-50850911658230676322009-07-28T14:50:54.134-04:002009-07-28T14:50:54.134-04:00Did anyone mention divorce? I thought not.
This ...Did anyone mention divorce? I thought not.<br /><br />This is a helluva post, Elizabeth.IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-31321510459679533812009-07-28T14:04:39.836-04:002009-07-28T14:04:39.836-04:00Elizabeth, Congratulations on your post to HoBD. M...Elizabeth, Congratulations on your post to HoBD. My amanuensis and I have enjoyed reading the comments. Well done, all! <br /><br />I have only enjoyed 8 years since knee replacement on my right knee, and I still have hope that I won't need further surgery there before my time in this world is complete. I certainly hope that Barbara Conroy will not need further surgery in another 11 years.<br /><br />My replacement knee was a standard metal device, inserted a few days before 9/11. This means that I need to go into the "penalty box" every time I want to board a plane. Sometimes the "Male Assist" who checks me out asks me if I've ever gone through the process before. When I reply "About a hundred times", I'm not exaggerating. As my friend typing this for me says "that really sucks".<br /><br />NitpickerNigelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09458321885102464780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-81160913951768845012009-07-28T13:45:05.590-04:002009-07-28T13:45:05.590-04:00Back in the mist of my distant past, I explored a ...Back in the mist of my distant past, I explored a vocation to ordained ministry. Back when it was hard enough to be a woman, let alone a young woman, let alone a lesbian. <br /><br />I thought "This is hard enough as a woman, it will kill me if I do this as a lesbian."<br /><br />Fortunately, the Spirit did Her work, and helped me understand that it was already killing me, and the only way I would live was to be who God created me to be.<br /><br />Through honesty and integrity to God's creation, I was able to discern my vocation in life and serve God's mission in the world.<br /><br />My experience of God's love and the wholeness I have experienced by living into the person God has created me to be, is why I am so profoundly hurt and outraged at the actions of the ABC. I grieve for my LGBTI brothers and sisters who hear his words and believe them. I grieve for their families and communities, who hear these words as a call to "heal" them of this "chosen lifestyle." <br /><br />Maybe we should send dear Rowen a copy of Miroslav Volf's Exclusion and Embrace, and remind him what happens when a group of people are targeted for their "choices."Valerie Leyvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15871445392559598859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-62217152416154241982009-07-28T13:32:44.810-04:002009-07-28T13:32:44.810-04:00No-one *has* to have a sexual relationship, irresp...No-one *has* to have a sexual relationship, irrespective of their orientation; it is called "self-control". Anyone can have a non-sexual, emotional relationship which is perfectly acceptable within the church.<br />No-one *needs* sex, anymore than diabetics *need* sugar.Joanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12445957269963035576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-60729741702387350352009-07-28T13:28:28.809-04:002009-07-28T13:28:28.809-04:00My favorite part of +++'s "statement"...My favorite part of +++'s "statement" - really, shouldn't a "statement" actually <i>say</i> something - is the part about the CHurch acknowledging that it's sinful to do violence against LGBT folk, and about how the Church must affirm our human dignity. Excuse me? Condemning our love as sinful is the ultimate act of violence. And how, exactly, does denying God's calling in a person's life, based solely on who he or she loves, affirm that person's dignity?<br /><br />With all due respect to the Archbishop, I suspect he's been sipping a little more than just the Lambeth Kool-Aid ...jmcleod76https://www.blogger.com/profile/17756115118582961551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-87261407242822832372009-07-28T13:11:40.194-04:002009-07-28T13:11:40.194-04:00As a gay man who is ordained and openly lives with...As a gay man who is ordained and openly lives with his partner with a bishop who is thoroughly anti, in the province of Canterbury, these can be scary times...until my boyfriend gets home from work and all this stuff feels so secondary :-)<br /><br />All the same - when it is scary such voices of solidarity pierce the darkness......Thankyou. xxxFreedom Boundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17846313152590496452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-47880529641992177382009-07-28T12:42:34.121-04:002009-07-28T12:42:34.121-04:00Thank you, Elizabeth. You 'get' the ABC. U...Thank you, Elizabeth. You 'get' the ABC. Unfortunately he just cannot 'get' us. To paraphrase Patrick McGoohan in The Prisoner, I want to yell at Rowan 'I am not a lifestyle! I am a person!'Michael Cudneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11498233049096776895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-69864772612459195832009-07-28T12:31:24.853-04:002009-07-28T12:31:24.853-04:00I'm worried, The Pope and the AOC Agree.
From...I'm worried, The Pope and the AOC Agree.<br /><br />From Pope Benedict XVI CARITAS IN VERITATE<br /><br />In view of this, States are called to enact policies promoting the centrality and the integrity of the family founded on marriage between a man and a woman, the primary vital cell of society[112], and to assume responsibility for its economic and fiscal needs, while respecting its essentially relational character.<br /><br />From the AOC: Communion, Covenant and our Anglican Future<br />So long as the Church Catholic, or even the Communion as a whole does not bless same-sex unions, a person living in such a union cannot without serious incongruity have a representative function in a Church whose public teaching is at odds with their lifestyle.<br /><br />It is just a little scary to me when I find the Pope and the Archbishop in lockstep over this issue.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05623709712119761741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-64560048711846863472009-07-28T12:28:29.226-04:002009-07-28T12:28:29.226-04:00Susan Russell is absolutely right. The problem wit...Susan Russell is absolutely right. The problem with us, according to the ABC, is not that we're gay but that we do not lie about it and hide it.<br /><br />Unlike fundamentalist churches where gays are regularly investigated and expelled, Rowan's church looks like this:<br /><br />Gay and open about it. OK, as long as you're a lay person. Probably expected if you play more that two keyboards and a pedal section. <br /><br />Gay and somewhat secretive. Maybe you can be on the PCC and go to synod as a lay representative.<br /><br />Gay and pretty secretive about it. You can be ordained to the priesthood. Your partner can live in the vicarage only if you pretend that is all about needing more money, etc.<br /><br />Gay and extremely secretive. You actually lie about it. You can be a bishop.John D Bassetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01716421788208143074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-15748958866376116972009-07-28T12:03:55.592-04:002009-07-28T12:03:55.592-04:00How horrible that anyone should ever be grateful t...How horrible that anyone should ever be grateful that s/he was treated like a human being.susankayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15513759507628166408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-16253982530335974112009-07-28T11:34:49.262-04:002009-07-28T11:34:49.262-04:00Can't hear theology today. Fans are too loud i...Can't hear theology today. Fans are too loud in the free kitchen and cooling center in our parish hall. Got a couple hundred people to feed and an equal number seeking relief from the killer heat here in Oregon. Think +Cantaur would be so kind as to bring my queer self another 15 lbs of ice for the children's punch? Or would that be supporting the terribly sinful lifestyle I've chosen?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com