tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post6549310563051352257..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: Dying yet, behold! We live!Elizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-8387537103622879512007-10-13T17:47:00.000-04:002007-10-13T17:47:00.000-04:00Ah, Sometimeswise - this would be one of those "ti...Ah, Sometimeswise - this would be one of those "times" when you are.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-58621854546378231952007-10-13T16:41:00.000-04:002007-10-13T16:41:00.000-04:00I believe that he who lives by statistics dies by ...I believe that he who lives by statistics dies by statistics, but (and we know everything before the but is, well you know)...<BR/>Comparing the Pittsburgh diocese and the Washington DC diocese is like comparing Peoria to New York. The population in metro Pgh is about 2.3 million, and the population in the DC area is over 7 million. As a math geek of old, this skews the stats considerably in favor of 'da Burgh.SometimesWisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18174877906545481652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-34691301055779949602007-10-12T21:39:00.000-04:002007-10-12T21:39:00.000-04:00Matt Kennedy notes that he thinks his diocese has ...Matt Kennedy notes that he thinks his diocese has lost 12% average Sunday attendance over the last 5 years.<BR/><BR/>From the same sources referenced in my earlier post, the Diocese of Central New York had ASA in 1993 of 8,089, in 2003 of 6,621 (an 18.3% decline over 10 years) and in 2005 of 6,190 (6.5% over 2 years).<BR/><BR/>The decline in Episcopalians in Matt's diocese may have been as much as 12% over the last 5 years, but clearly this is a continuation of a prior population trend and not obviously linked to any 2003 consecration.Paul (A.)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07543357437252555101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-66362195449529050512007-10-08T23:24:00.000-04:002007-10-08T23:24:00.000-04:00Thanks for the information, Matt. I've also looke...Thanks for the information, Matt. I've also looked at your parochial report in terms finances and pledging units. <BR/><BR/>Clearly, you have your work cut out for you in terms of stewardship.<BR/><BR/>I will keep you in my prayers.<BR/><BR/>I have not seen you "play the numbers" but it seems to me that if you aren't going to reveal your statistics, you have no room to criticize anyone else's.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-22764435757109482392007-10-08T21:43:00.000-04:002007-10-08T21:43:00.000-04:00What is interesting to note is that we did not rep...What is interesting to note is that we did not report our parochial stats for 2006, nor will we for next year since we are in the process of pulling out and yet the statistics office, apparently, listed some stats anyway. I am not certain where they came up with them? In any case. Our 2006 ASA is 81. Not huge. But, when we take into account that it was 47 four years ago, I'll take it. This year we are pushing 90. All this in a diocese that has lost 12% ASA over the last 5 years I believe. <BR/><BR/>So, while we are not huge, we are certainly growing strong. <BR/><BR/>Matt KennedyAnnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06944928044277724293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-46653667967958623052007-10-08T16:40:00.000-04:002007-10-08T16:40:00.000-04:00There are no coincidences, Bill.There are no coincidences, Bill.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-16737235120993455862007-10-08T16:37:00.000-04:002007-10-08T16:37:00.000-04:00Elizabeth writes: "and that of Fr. Jonathan, aka ...Elizabeth writes: "and that of Fr. Jonathan, aka “MadPriest” in Northern England?<BR/><BR/>After a bit of contemplation, I decided to nix that idea as it began to feel a bit too much like ‘a near occasion of sin.’"<BR/><BR/>Is it coincidence that the very next sentence after 'Father Jonathan aka MadPriest' talks about the "near occasion of sin."<BR/><BR/>I think not.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05623709712119761741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-21511953026020792942007-10-08T15:13:00.000-04:002007-10-08T15:13:00.000-04:00MP, not to worry. I picture you with your very ow...MP, not to worry. I picture you with your very own talk show. Possibly "The Daily Heretic", Wot.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05623709712119761741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-19368810510813720132007-10-07T20:43:00.000-04:002007-10-07T20:43:00.000-04:00In checking with your source, I found that it woul...In checking with your source, I found that it would seem that you are reporting Active Baptized Members rather than Average Sunday Attendance. Also, not having back copies of the Red Book available, I referred also to Louie Crew's comparison of limited statistics for 1993 versus 2003, as taken from the Red Book. His table for <A HREF="http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/%7Elcrew/communicants93_03.html#attend" REL="nofollow">ASA</A>, combined with the table you cited to, yields the following for Average Sunday Attendance (can't get table formatting to work):<BR/><BR/>Years: 1993 2003 2005<BR/><BR/>Albany 8,121 7,745 7,440<BR/>Newark 11,867 10,745 10,076<BR/><BR/>Pittsburgh 8,131 8,281 8,054<BR/>Washington 18,354 16,919 16,709<BR/><BR/>El Camino Real 5,848 6,025 5,309<BR/>San Joaquin 4,427 4,425 4,105<BR/><BR/>The bottom line here is that 2003 (the year of the confirmation of Gene Robinson's election) does not seem to have made a significant difference in church attendance (other than in El Camino Real). Otherwise, the numbers for the most part appear to be largely flat over the twelve-year period. Instructive. <BR/><BR/>On another point, I share your distaste for Kendall Harmon's labels of "reasserters" and "reappraisers". In light of historical precedent and of the recent meeting in Pittsburgh for those who want to establish a parallel church to TEC, I think better terms for the two groups would be "<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revanchism" REL="nofollow">Revanchists</A>" and "<A HREF="http://www.episcopalchurch.org/" REL="nofollow">Episcopalians</A>".Paul (A.)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07543357437252555101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-68258669145339743342007-10-07T18:41:00.000-04:002007-10-07T18:41:00.000-04:00On this matter, as is the case from time-to-time, ...On this matter, as is the case from time-to-time, I believe that the MadOne is absolutely correct. In times of growth, the church seems to focus on measurements that mean success in human terms. In the lean times, we're reminded to rest in God alone -- struggling to follow the way of the cross, and not struggling after things of little import.KJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15701224049914946896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-57259757048668768952007-10-07T01:50:00.000-04:002007-10-07T01:50:00.000-04:00Rapidly declining numbers in my province and the s...Rapidly declining numbers in my province and the subsequent loss of revenue both scares me and excites me. It scares me because I cannot see that I will finish my work as a salaried priest. It excites me because the decline will force priests into a place of humility that will make the Church stronger and more authentically Christlike. This is nothing new. The Old Testament prophetic tradition shows that there is a natural (or, if you like, God-given) cycle of boom and bust. In fact, it seems like there has to be for the health of the faith. It's similar to those plants that have to die in a forest fire before their seeds can germinate.MadPriesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15120376342802143188noreply@blogger.com