tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post7151415682038229591..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: First Friday #2: A question of PrioritiesElizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-9237600544349605292009-03-11T00:18:00.000-04:002009-03-11T00:18:00.000-04:00Well, I don't know anything about any of that. Bu...Well, I don't know anything about any of that. But, I'll tell you this, I always do better when I make my boss look good. It seems doubtful to me that the young curate will make much progress until he can get that part down. I'd fire him, I'll tell you that.Lindyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04662429826507775390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-19182293914232655802009-03-10T09:00:00.000-04:002009-03-10T09:00:00.000-04:00Thanks for stopping by again, Mark. We can agree ...Thanks for stopping by again, Mark. We can agree to disagree about pastoral care and 'tough love'. My experience are just different from yours, is all. In some ways, it's all projection. The strongest dynamic I've ever encountered in parish ministry is "transference / counter transference". I wish I had known about it sooner. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, I'm just delighted this column has inspired so many conversations about so many aspects of parish ministryElizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-62629642978782584402009-03-10T04:56:00.000-04:002009-03-10T04:56:00.000-04:00Regarding the nature of "pastoral," well, since wh...<I>Regarding the nature of "pastoral," well, since when has that meant "being as sweet and warm as mother's milk"? Jesus did his fair share of "rebuking" a few of his disciples, didn't he?</I><BR/><BR/>Interesting you should mention mother's milk. I would often, as an adolescent, use the same argument of Jesus' rebukes for my harshness to others. My mother would then say, "Yes. But you aren't Jesus."<BR/><BR/>Pastoral means pastoral, which is to tend to the needs of the one being pastored. What I am <I>seeing</I> is a great deal of outrage and derision that some young punk would dare challenge age and wisdom. It's just as knee-jerk as the young curate's response. I doubt the harsh responses helped such a fragile, self-absorbed ego, frankly. Harshness works for those who are willing to face directly. This young curate seems too immature, yet. It will have hardened his own defensiveness and improved nothing. <BR/><BR/>"Tough Love" is, in my experience, a poor technique.<BR/><BR/><I>Let's also remember that when someone asks, "What should I do?" or "What do you think?" whatever they get in return is what they asked for. </I><BR/><BR/>I do hope none of us gets what we asked for! Especially, in terms of Judgment, don't you?MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-45759455485116665812009-03-07T20:23:00.000-05:002009-03-07T20:23:00.000-05:00Karen, I don't think I said that the generational ...Karen, I don't think I said that the generational issue wasn't important. I just thought it wasn't the primary issue. That doesn't mean that it's not significant. It's just not primary - at least not to me. Then again, we all see the primary issue through our own lens. Generational stuff is very important to some, like Allie. Safety issues are very important to me, but so is where we are and what we are doing in the liturgy. Someone else would - and has - seen the primary issue as the dynamic between the rector and the curate. <BR/><BR/>This is one of the reasons I chose this situation - I knew it wouldn't fail to hit several topics all at once. And, in this neighborhood, there is never a want for diversity of opinion - strong opinion - and sometimes several from the same person. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for stopping by, Karen, and venturing to speak. We may disagree, but I believe that it is lively discussion that keeps people coming back - even after they might have gotten their toes stepped on.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-75090062625536455682009-03-07T19:18:00.000-05:002009-03-07T19:18:00.000-05:00I was not going to say anything. I have read your ...I was not going to say anything. I have read your blog for some time, but have just lurked in the shadows. But after spending the morning at a workshop addressing why the church is losing people under 40 (if you haven't read <I>Tribal Church</I> by Carol Howard Merritt you should)I have to agree with Allie--the generational aspect of this is significant. You think not? Reread the question, only have the senior pastor be the one who continued the service and his young associate be the one who leveled the critique. Are you sure you would have had the same response to the comments about gossip? I suspect not. <BR/><BR/>At 55 I am older than Phillip and younger than some of the responders. As a life-long active church member I have seen a few emergencies during service or church events. As a health care professional I have responded as needed. In my experience the overwhelming response of those who have become ill in public is to not want to be a specticle. I have even known people who went to extreme lenghts to not let anyone know they were becoming ill in church because they so did not want to be the focus of attention. I think it is important that our response to these incidents focus on the needs of the person who has become ill and not the needs of the others present to "do something". <BR/><BR/>That said, I too thank you for this series and everything you write. Checking your posts has become a valued and enjoyable part of my routine. <BR/><BR/>KarenKarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12752647845657172289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-76446249420440246602009-03-07T18:56:00.000-05:002009-03-07T18:56:00.000-05:00Hi Rev. Elizabeth,A pair of thoughts:We had a pers...Hi Rev. Elizabeth,<BR/><BR/>A pair of thoughts:<BR/><BR/>We had a person collapse in a mass not long ago. We were able to use it as a learning experience. The gentleman was tended by ushers, the priest who did indeed stop the liturgy, EMT's and is fine. <BR/><BR/>But now, we have a manual, ushers and clergy review it from time to time, and we have a portable defibulator. These are cheap by the way, not having one is a mistake. Training comes with and the Red Cross, Boy and Girl Scouts and others can help with first aid training for ushers.<BR/><BR/>Second, thought. If I were making decisions, that curate would indeed be looking for work. Any new ordained person gets a month of arrogance -- it takes that long to get over the experience IME. But a year? <BR/><BR/>Even if it is nothing but the prayerbook prayers for healing while holding someone's hand, we are a community and a priest is supposed to be a community leader. <BR/><BR/>FWIW<BR/>jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-79834785265677118662009-03-07T09:15:00.000-05:002009-03-07T09:15:00.000-05:00Thanks so much, Kirke, for your fine words and obs...Thanks so much, Kirke, for your fine words and observations. Makes me think that perhaps I should also have a panel from my wise friends in cyberspace. You would be one of the first I ask.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-15486252494302097192009-03-07T09:08:00.000-05:002009-03-07T09:08:00.000-05:00I waited a little while to respond to this one, be...I waited a little while to respond to this one, because I had to get through my initial response of, "You sanctimonius little @#$%!"<BR/><BR/>I think what disturbs me the most is that Young Curate has bought too much of the vowel "I".<BR/><BR/>I'll break this down in two parts:<BR/><BR/>1. The medical problem. As a person who HAS had to do CPR in the strangest places, frankly, other than maybe other than a slight stoppage of the service to see if she was okay, and to wing it a little by offering prayers for her and the first responders when he returned to the front, he needed to stay out of the way and let the first responders respond.<BR/><BR/>IMO, his only learning point there was to have briefly stopped the service and winged some extra prayers upon his return to the liturgy. If the scene was in the way of people taking Communion, maybe a brief instruction on "which way to come up front", or even bring it TO the rest.<BR/><BR/>2. Now we get to the hard part. Even in the first paragraph, the "I" problem comes out. He sort of alludes this woman is a hypochondriac and I'm betting he thought she was just "carryin' on," as we say in these parts.<BR/><BR/>Then we get to the discussion of the rector, which I lump into the age-old saga of "Young turks vs. old farts." Young Curate, we ALL start out being Young Turks. God willing, we will grow into Old Farts. But Old Farts know more than you think from that gray hair. I am definitely an AOF (Apprentice Old Fart) at this stage of my life. I carry scars. But we have learned to carry on and succeed in ways that are not as apparent.<BR/><BR/>Young Turks are full of energy to change the world, God Bless 'em. But there is a place where Young Turks have to learn if they don't plan on being Don Quixote, tilting alone at windmills, they try to temper their energy with wisdom. There is a place where you need to morph from where you stop comparing yourself as "the popular kid" (Kirke rolls eyes at the "they love me better" delusion) and grow your heart. They do not teach this in seminary nor medical school, and it's painful as hell.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I don't care if you stumble through the liturgy or you stutter in the pulpit. What comes out of your heart in those moments? My priest has a college town congregation where 85% of us have either a Ph.D., a D.O., or an M.D. He writes beautiful poetic sermons, but on sheer homiletics, I'm sure the Ph.D.'s in religion and philosophy could run rings around him. One of them is one of his ACOLYTES. The person with the religious "smarts" serves HIM. Think about that one.<BR/><BR/>Young Curate, you may well be in a world of doo-doo on this one, or maybe not. Either way, I hope you DO figure out who you need to apologize to you, and I hope you come to multiple fronts of reconciliation. You have gotten a LOT of excellent advice from Elizabeth's panel and it may not seem like it all fits, because at first glance it seems divergent, but read them all and see the common theme.<BR/><BR/>God bless you, you Young Turk. May you grow into a fine Old Fart!Kirkepiscatoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02651684515435040529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-18276155248933136212009-03-07T08:01:00.000-05:002009-03-07T08:01:00.000-05:00Hey, Mark, glad you stopped by. Your comments insp...Hey, Mark, glad you stopped by. Your comments inspire me to comment. Regarding the nature of "pastoral," well, since when has that meant "being as sweet and warm as mother's milk"? Jesus did his fair share of "rebuking" a few of his disciples, didn't he? I think that, sometimes, a good rebuking is the best pastoral care. And, you know, I think if more of the laity kept more of the ordained accountable, we'd have a healthier, stronger church.<BR/><BR/>Let's also remember that when someone asks, "What should I do?" or "What do you think?" whatever they get in return is what they asked for. Judgment? That word is spoken like it's a bad thing. It isn't necessarily. It's clearly not when it's in response for a request. <BR/><BR/>Phillip's story allows many of us to see ourselves at different times in our lives and in different situations. We're all doing a wee bit of projection on him and each other, based on the angle of our own perspective.<BR/><BR/>In my experience, this is how we learn. Someone wrote offline that this is an ancient Rabbinical method of teaching and learning. Sometimes we call it "case study". <BR/><BR/>This is only my second try with this experiment. I think it's at least worth a couple more installments, if my "First Responders" don't feel overloaded, and if some of ya'll will risk telling your secret situations.<BR/><BR/>Be well.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-64918936255826083162009-03-07T03:42:00.000-05:002009-03-07T03:42:00.000-05:00It is very difficult to second-guess anyone in suc...It is very difficult to second-guess anyone in such a stressful situation. He may well have been in the way, as most untrained people are in a scene such as he describes. He is young, and confusion and inexperience are diseases of youth (aside to Phillip: as are the tendencies to believe one is envied because of imagined greater insight and energy! :))<BR/><BR/>What I find distressing is some of the incredibly un-pastoral responses from those telling the young curate how to be pastoral. Yes, he is a professional - but in a very imprecise profession! He is also young, and also has come to you to offer pastoral guidance. Would you speak so harshly to a layperson, a congregant, who came to you for guidance? Priests are people with feelings as well. Of course he's trying to justify himself - just as we all - including the first responders - when we do the best we can. I, frankly, found the finger-shaking, furious tone of some of the "help" to be as appalling as they regarded his actions!<BR/><BR/>Phillip, I would say, should apologize. Right or wrong doesn't matter as much as relations. Apologize publicly - the incident was public - at another service and in a parish bulletin, if you can. Use it, perhaps, as a point of reflection, as your homiletic skill seems admirable. If the rector is trying to get at you, such humility will heap hot coals upon his head. If not, then, at very least, you will have learned the lesson of humility - which, from your own words, you need - and will have restored the trust and understanding of the parishioners.MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-47725679568652307372009-03-06T22:46:00.000-05:002009-03-06T22:46:00.000-05:00No, Paul. I don't think it's about judging Philli...No, Paul. I don't think it's about judging Phillip or what's in his heart. His transparency - intended or not - gave us a real gift in terms of an opportunity to discuss this situation from many different aspects. I think this is why it's important to retain anonymity of the person asking the question but not of the "First Responders." I am so deeply grateful to both Phillip for asking the question and my friends for their response as well as all of you who are leaving comments. This is a very rich discussion.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-31746815123636311972009-03-06T22:08:00.000-05:002009-03-06T22:08:00.000-05:00Years ago (1974!) we were at my grandmother's Meth...Years ago (1974!) we were at my grandmother's Methodist church when she had a heart attack during the sermon. Recognizing the imperfections of memory across 35 years especially when mixed with emotions, I can still vividly see the minister standing at the pulpit, seemingly upset that this had interrupted him. I don't remember him taking any action to help. The ushers opened the doors in the back for the EMTs to come in, but I remember nothing else to show concern about a long time member of their church.<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't try to judge what was in Philip's heart that day. But, if it were me, I hope I would see that <B>nothing</B> is more important than taking care of these people entrusted to you. I hope I would remember looking through the eyes of a college student watching his grandmother suffering and thinking her minister didn't care. As much as I love the liturgy, I could figure out how to pick it back up when the crisis was dealt with.Paul Davisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04773823407778121041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-74402504208559332842009-03-06T21:51:00.000-05:002009-03-06T21:51:00.000-05:00OMG, Genie, is that YOU? You figured out how to p...OMG, Genie, is that YOU? You figured out how to post? I'm so proud of you. Well done.<BR/><BR/>I had forgotten about that incident. Yes, it was right after the consecration and just as the elements were being distributed. <BR/><BR/>I can still remember the incredible hush that fell over the room - if it's possible to "hear" a "hush" "fall". There was no choice but for everyone and everything to come to a complete stop until +JSS responded. I can still see you and the Doc bounding over bleachers and people to get to the stage/altar.<BR/><BR/>It really is about when and where it all happens, isn't it? And, about being prepared - well, as prepared as you can be for the unexpected.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-56912207279745131832009-03-06T21:45:00.000-05:002009-03-06T21:45:00.000-05:00Reminds me of Bp Cronebergers consecration when Bp...Reminds me of Bp Cronebergers consecration when Bp Spong collapsed. If I remember a mighty fine Pediatricin and myself were the first to respond. I think you later stated that you did not know that I could move so fast :) I jumped over bleachers if I remember correctly. Then the service was suspended until we all knew that the Bishop was ok. After the ambulance left, Bp Croneberger led us in prayer and we continued. It felt right to stop, pray and care for esch other. Isn't that what we are about?geniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03123751239867668400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-13248533676826571802009-03-06T20:37:00.000-05:002009-03-06T20:37:00.000-05:00Well, Allie, there are so very many aspects of thi...Well, Allie, there are so very many aspects of this situation to comment on - the generational one would certainly appeal most to you - but I really don't see that as the primary issue. The primary one, at least as I see it, is a question of priorities in a situation of public worship where someone's life may be in danger. Every situation is different, depending on who is in the church at the time. Whether or not it is a baptism, funeral, 7:30 Sunday service, etc., also comes into play. But the basics of safety and 'first response' needs to be address and thought out ahead of time. Margaret's comments are very helpful in that way.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-67544977283917468852009-03-06T19:13:00.000-05:002009-03-06T19:13:00.000-05:00Elizabeth --Phillip, I served at a large church in...Elizabeth --Phillip, I served at a large church in a resort town --and unfortunately, this happened fairly frequently. <BR/><BR/>We had a protocol. The presider would stop--move away from what they were doing, ask for a doctor in the house, if necessary staff would know to go call 911, and then the presider would ask for prayers for the person, and lead the congregation in silent prayer from the chancel stairs.<BR/><BR/>Assisting clergy knew either to go to the doors to wait for and then bring the EMTs to the right place in the church, or to go to the pew and lay hands on the person and pray.... <BR/><BR/>It rarely took more than 5 minutes for the EMTs to get there, so the praying became part of the liturgy. To conclude, the Presider would then also pray for the EMTs and the doctors and then go back to where we were in the liturgy.<BR/><BR/>One of the clergy would follow the ambulance to the hospital, contact family and be present to the persons' needs.<BR/><BR/>In 2-1/2 years this happened six times. There were only three clergy--3,000 parishioners. But it worked.<BR/><BR/>When I was the only clergy present, as happened frequently during the summer, we still followed the same protocol, with staff help.<BR/><BR/>Now, as a rector of a congregation with an average Sunday attendance of 140--the protocol would remain the same, persons responsible would change....<BR/><BR/>Just food for thought.it's margarethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13577280471100732619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-90986462353574004372009-03-06T19:00:00.000-05:002009-03-06T19:00:00.000-05:00This a rather quick response, but I again can only...This a rather quick response, but I again can only say what happened to a service that I attended recently. It was at an Easter Vigil where the service is run with great theatrics and the grandfather of one of the babies to be baptized passed out (along with some other not so nice reactions). The priests - both of whom are over 50 (one a bit older than that) continued with the service, for which everyone was grateful. They knew that they were not medics, and that the responsible ushers would be handling this and calling 911. Everyone ESPECIALLY the family was extremely grateful that the service continued as it did and that as little attention was drawn to the matter as possible, especially since those involved seemed a bit embarrassed. <BR/><BR/>I would thank this curate for not embarrassing me, if he was sure medics had been called.<BR/><BR/>As for his characterization of his rector, I am not a priest, but I did once have a boss who was psychotic. She was older than me, but I am a better researcher. I simply can find more thorough information faster. <BR/><BR/>People did prefer to work with me because I didn't belittle them and would get them the information they needed without making them wait or putting them through theatrics. That doesn't make me naieve for this characterization since many people told me this was why they were asking me, and making sure I wouldn't tell my boss. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps this curate is being unfair (at the very least he is a bit cocky), I would not discount that, but I do think the possibility that he is not needs to be taken, and that some of the reactions seemed a bit knee-jerk and hurtful. The rest seemed full of love, and thank you all for your thoughtfulness.Alliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00064694737558527322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-90794396340084958612009-03-06T16:21:00.000-05:002009-03-06T16:21:00.000-05:00Bill, what a wonderful idea. Thanks so much.To al...Bill, what a wonderful idea. Thanks so much.<BR/><BR/>To all the rest of y'all, thanks so much for your comments. I hope Phillip comes by to read them all.<BR/><BR/>And, if you have a situation you'd like to submit - Anonymously, of course - something either present or something that you are still trying to work out, and think it would help the community, make sure to send it to me privately at e m kaeton at aol dot com and I'll send it off next month to the "First Responders."Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-33775002419414431002009-03-06T15:28:00.000-05:002009-03-06T15:28:00.000-05:00Interesting story. Our Deacon was processing to re...Interesting story. Our Deacon was processing to read the Gospel and miss judged a step from the altar area to the floor of the Sanctuary at the crossing. She fell right behind me, as I was carrying to Gospel book for her. She went down and within seconds we had a Nurse and EMT at her side, with other "helpers" very close.<BR/><BR/>As is our custom, 1/2 of a block from a fire house, halted the proceedings, responded with prayer for our Deacon, those helping her, and in the case of fire, for the emergency responders and for those being responded to.<BR/><BR/>Our Deacon recovered and insisted on continuing reading of the Good News.<BR/><BR/>The only exception to halting of the proceedings is during the Great Thanksgiving.<BR/><BR/>So, we have a lot of practice as to what to do, Pray for all.Russ Worthingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17755930126219290253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-6598512126287995842009-03-06T13:36:00.000-05:002009-03-06T13:36:00.000-05:00I seems to me we should be most thankfull that the...I seems to me we should be most thankfull that there were professionals on the spot so quickly to handle this!<BR/><BR/>But it also seems to me that there should have been some preparedness, and before the fact.<BR/><BR/>As someone said, many people in a church on Sunday are quite old and anything can always happen - not least after 50 years of age...<BR/><BR/>I do hope Phillip and his rector learn from this near fatality.Göran Koch-Swahnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00925549945659350649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-88652709372936419462009-03-06T12:31:00.000-05:002009-03-06T12:31:00.000-05:00Yep, it does happen. I have had it happen more th...Yep, it does happen. I have had it happen more than once. The first time was at an early service when there were few folks there and I was the only professional there. We stopped the service and called the EMTS and after they left continued the service.<BR/><BR/>The other one was a parishioner who I knew would be mortified if I stopped the service. She had another parishioner, a professional, assisting her to the narthex where EMTs were called. I went to the hospital immediately after the service.<BR/><BR/>A couple of your respondants were a bit harsh, but the issue is not about anglo-catholic prissiness or hard-heartedness. The issue is the relationship between the rector and the curate. And I agree with the respondant that said that the curate was getting used by the factions in the parish. <BR/><BR/>Humility has to be at the heart of our ministry--no matter where or when it is. I doubt if anyone could have told me that in my youth, but Phillip will be a better priest if he can hear it.<BR/><BR/>The only place where I would willing to make a caveat about the leadership of the rector--and that is in the ministry of preaching. We are all called to be prophets and in preaching we are given the voice by God. We cannot dilute the Gospel.<BR/><BR/>Phillip hasn't found out yet that the liturgy is not the main thing about his ministry. His priesthood is about relationship with the people he has been called to serve just as faith is about our relationship with God. <BR/><BR/>Live and learn, dear Phillip. We all stumble in trying to do the right thing. Get used to the criticism! Priests are always criticized. Just try to live the best you can--apologize when it seems to heal problems and reach out in the loving name of Christ.Muthah+https://www.blogger.com/profile/10589837671378205837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-15505218449513617442009-03-06T12:20:00.000-05:002009-03-06T12:20:00.000-05:00I don't know if it's because we often use two thur...I don't know if it's because we often use two thuribles (no, it's not Smokey Mary's) or that we often receive visitors unused to worship grounded in the rich Anglo-Catholic liturgical and musical tradition but we always have a lot of fainters (and other serious emergencies besides) in our parish. The blessed thing is one is never far from the side of a few cardiologists, two EMTs, three or four private critical care nurses, a handful of medical doctors and a bevy of God’s helping hands. Over and again the first thing the person says is, I RUINED THE LITURGY ! to which we reassure him or her that everything went on smoothly and no disruption was noticed. I think there is a calm which descends over the person that he or she has not disturbed the work of the priest and all has gone on without incident. I couldn’t think of anything worse than, in the middle of my distress, the entire Eucharist coming to a halt so that the priest, whose only skill might only be to pray over me, would cease The Holiest Prayer to draw attention to my need. I don’t know, not ever having been in that position. I just can’t thank you enough, Mother, for this WONDERFUL community-building experience. Love and peace to you and all, as always.WelcomeToTheSearchForPeacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02940862967413106048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-46245172568578959832009-03-06T12:08:00.000-05:002009-03-06T12:08:00.000-05:00OK, now I see that la Madre and Bill have more con...OK, now I see that la Madre and Bill have more connection than I realized! Madre, thank you for this inspired ministry!<BR/>*****<BR/><BR/>Young Curate, you have received good advice covering a number of points of view. One thing that you might do is reread your original post sent to Madre Lizabet. I know that you feel attacked by your Rector. And that has surely put you on the defensive. There is a particular "I" problem apparent in your post. You have dug in your heels and now lack a certain humility. That, more than anything else, will be what gets you fired at this point.<BR/><BR/>I hope that it does not come to that. I hope that you can overcome this competition that you have in your mind between your skill set and that of the rector. A cure should be more on-the-job training, beyond a semester or two of internship usually required to complete an MDiv. However, not all rectors see it that way, or are prepared to actually be the mentor they should be. For some you would be another body to pawn off with the 7:30 am service. I pray for better than that for you.<BR/><BR/>If it not too late, the only way that you will turn this around is through exhibiting a teachable humility. Even if it involves eating a certain amount of crow.<BR/><BR/>God bless you in your vocation. Many of us have lost at least one job at some time in life. May this not discourage you unto despair.<BR/><BR/>Lic. David Austin Allen, ThM<BR/>Human Resources Specialist<BR/>Monterrey, NL, Mexico<BR/><BR/>Parroquia de la Sagrada Familia<BR/>Diócesis del Norte<BR/>Iglesia Anglicana de MéxicoBrother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-32683002492895219042009-03-06T10:43:00.000-05:002009-03-06T10:43:00.000-05:00Actually Elizabeth, this prompted a conversation w...Actually Elizabeth, this prompted a conversation with our program development person. I'm looking into tailoring our existing LifeGuard Management course to handling situations in Churches. When we have it ready we may host a forum at our chapter for the local churches.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05623709712119761741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-18053774511017884722009-03-06T10:27:00.000-05:002009-03-06T10:27:00.000-05:00Thanks, Bill. I confess that when this question c...Thanks, Bill. I confess that when this question came in by private email, I immediately thought of our own situation. I'm willing to bet that this happens more often that any of us realize. Sounds to me like a call for Basic CPR training in seminary and dioceses.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.com