tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post7509551829631537968..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: A 12-Step Ecumenical Communion ServiceElizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-46204208829241009482014-02-04T18:36:58.120-05:002014-02-04T18:36:58.120-05:00Of course, Carol. Proper attrition appreciated. Pl...Of course, Carol. Proper attrition appreciated. Please do note the helpful comments from Mark Brunson.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-72121395592547141282014-02-04T10:29:40.082-05:002014-02-04T10:29:40.082-05:00Elizabeth, I am putting together a "recovery ...Elizabeth, I am putting together a "recovery Eucharist" for our church. May we "borrow" from this liturgy in our service? We would be very grateful for the help. Carol Meadhttp://www.holyordinary.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-68399164624262690622009-03-19T02:12:00.000-04:002009-03-19T02:12:00.000-04:00A bishop, Elizabeth? Never!I love the Church and ...A bishop, Elizabeth? Never!<BR/><BR/>I love the Church <B>and</B> its people! >:DMarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-64136410062305076192009-03-18T09:29:00.000-04:002009-03-18T09:29:00.000-04:00An easy enough mistake, Paul.An easy enough mistake, Paul.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-66887598784393348032009-03-18T09:13:00.000-04:002009-03-18T09:13:00.000-04:00That makes complete sense, Elizabeth. I had confus...That makes complete sense, Elizabeth. I had confused "ecumenical" and "interfaith."Paul Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04833212693999583069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-75737342427235566812009-03-18T06:14:00.000-04:002009-03-18T06:14:00.000-04:00Wow. Thanks so much Mark. I think that greatly i...Wow. Thanks so much Mark. I think that greatly improves the opening prayers. Just one word of caution: You wouldn't be running for bishop anywhere. I mean, we don't want the Trolls using this as evidence against you. ;~)Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-48806951721243730732009-03-18T06:11:00.000-04:002009-03-18T06:11:00.000-04:00For the Hindu, "Aum" would be the preferred spelli...For the Hindu, "Aum" would be the preferred spelling.<BR/><BR/>"Nam Myoho Renge Kyo" is also referred to as "Daimoku" and the chanting of it is primary to Nichiren and Tendai (T'ian T'ai)schools of Buddhism, in the US Soka Gakkai International particularly uses it. It is difficult to actually translate, but for "place-keeping" reference, it can mean "I take refuge in the mystic law of the Lotus Sutra." It is chanted because Nichiren believed that mankind and its practice had become so corrupted that real practice toward enlightenment was impossible, and invoking the Lotus Sutra was a way to rely on the merit of the Buddha for favorable rebirth/Nirvanic cessation of rebirth.<BR/><BR/>Nichiren Buddhism has had a . . . rocky relationship with other schools, as it tends to claim to be the only "real Buddhism."<BR/><BR/>Other Buddhist chants, more widely known and used and without Nichiren associations are:<BR/><B>Namu Amida Butsu</B> roughly: "I take refuge in Amitabha Buddha." A chant used in the Pure Land or Jodo School of Buddhism to invoke Amitabha's vow to bring all those who call upon him to his Western Pure Land of rebirth - close to Christian Heaven. Also based on the Lotus Sutra's prediction of a time of advanced corruption making real practice impossible.<BR/>The very-well-known:<BR/><B>Om Mani Padme Hum</B> - used as a mantra almost universally in Buddhism and with ties to its roots in the Brahmanic religion. It is an invocation/meditation on Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva (Kwannon, Kannon, Kwan Um, Kwan Yin) who is the great Bodhisattva of compassion - usually taking a female form and, in the early days of Christianity in Japan, sometimes associated with Virgin Mary. It refers to a name/style of Avalokitesvara's, "The Jewel in the Lotus." Further explanation would depend on which school and branch and type of Buddhism you're dealing with, and which teacher - it's that universal and Avalokitesvara is that revered.<BR/><BR/>Hope this helps!MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-45770454398404634662009-03-17T23:31:00.000-04:002009-03-17T23:31:00.000-04:00Paul, I think this could easily be adapted for an ...Paul, I think this could easily be adapted for an ECUMENICAL Prayer service - w/o Eucharist - but it would need MAJOR revisions in order to be an INTERFAITH service.<BR/><BR/>This was designed to be ECUMENICAL - meaning, Christian. The Interfaith "flavor" of the opening prayers probably confuse that. I was thinking that the Interfaith "flavor" would more greatly honor the "Higher Power" spirituality of the 12 Step Program without actually saying that. Does that make any sense?Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-23441639811921632102009-03-17T23:28:00.000-04:002009-03-17T23:28:00.000-04:00Thank you, Ken. I am humbled by your generosity.Thank you, Ken. I am humbled by your generosity.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-38117945464682448412009-03-17T19:51:00.000-04:002009-03-17T19:51:00.000-04:00This liturgy could also easily adapted for a 12-st...This liturgy could also easily adapted for a 12-step interdenominational prayer service in situations where a eucharistic celebration isn't possible (e.g. because no priest is available) or might be problematic for some reason or the other.<BR/><BR/>But while I can see this as a very effective and moving liturgy for Christians of various flavors and stripes, I'm not sure though whether people from faith traditions outside Christianity (e.g. Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists) would feel at home with this service. Even though this liturgy pays tribute to other religions, it is an overwhelmingly Christian service (especially the Eucharistic portion).Paul Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04833212693999583069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-16370792145716863122009-03-17T14:02:00.000-04:002009-03-17T14:02:00.000-04:00As one who indeed 12-steps thru AA, I am overwhelm...As one who indeed 12-steps thru AA, I am overwhelmed with gratitude for what you have given us here. Since it is my anonymity to give away, I have no problem putting my name to this. Thank you, Elizabeth.bKenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10020538249548627986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-46837620098187078812009-03-17T10:24:00.000-04:002009-03-17T10:24:00.000-04:00Good questions, Paul. I did this years ago and I ...Good questions, Paul. I did this years ago and I do remember checking with some folks about their origins. Obviously, I got it wrong. Thanks. I'll make the corrections.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-64268011973379915042009-03-17T10:05:00.000-04:002009-03-17T10:05:00.000-04:00A couple of minor quibbles:Nam myo-ho renge Kyo is...A couple of minor quibbles:<BR/><BR/>Nam myo-ho renge Kyo is a Buddhist prayer, not Hindu. Actually, I believe it's used in a particular sect of Japanese Buddhism. I'm not sure that it's used in Buddhist prayers elsewhere, but ocicbw.<BR/><BR/>Om, on the other hand, is used in both Hinduism and Buddhism. <BR/><BR/>I am not familiar with either of these religions to know whether their followers would consider your use of these prayers to be appropriate in this context, and I'm curious whether you consulted with clergy/theologians from these faiths about it.Paul Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04833212693999583069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-68679929867122189392009-03-17T09:39:00.000-04:002009-03-17T09:39:00.000-04:00OMG, indeed, Kirke.OMG, indeed, Kirke.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-5450639627142253282009-03-17T09:21:00.000-04:002009-03-17T09:21:00.000-04:00O. M. G.This is an amazing work. Wow.I have alw...O. M. G.<BR/><BR/>This is an amazing work. Wow.<BR/><BR/>I have always said all along, there is nothing "12 steppers" are doing that we shouldn't all be doing. We are ALL powerless to some kind of addiction, even if it does not come from a bottle or a pill box.<BR/><BR/>This speaks to so many people on so many levels, not just "the addicted."Kirkepiscatoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02651684515435040529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-24616599401332385652009-03-17T08:49:00.000-04:002009-03-17T08:49:00.000-04:00Thanks, David. Spread it around to all whom you th...Thanks, David. Spread it around to all whom you think may appreciate itElizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-47775429778288177012009-03-17T08:41:00.000-04:002009-03-17T08:41:00.000-04:00this is a wonderful gift of insight and grace by a...this is a wonderful gift of insight and grace by a generous heart<BR/>and it only confirms for me the living blessing you are Elizabeth.<BR/>thank-you for sharing this, I will be passing it on to several to whom it will real comfort<BR/>and who will once again have cause to see what a real and alive place our Church is.<BR/>thank-you again Elizabeth<BR/><BR/>David@MontrealDavid@Montrealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08447479118332347163noreply@blogger.com