tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post7925981781418633040..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: The Gift of Not Being 'Normal'Elizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-19644302238828200502011-07-14T13:24:19.162-04:002011-07-14T13:24:19.162-04:00Thanks for telling me about this book. I read The...Thanks for telling me about this book. I read The Eden Express when I was a freshman in college, and I've always wondered how the rest of Mark's life turned out.Mary-Cauliflowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17023407956584118667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-63999942049176680612011-07-14T13:10:26.430-04:002011-07-14T13:10:26.430-04:00Thank you, Chrissie. Depression and bi-polar disor...Thank you, Chrissie. Depression and bi-polar disorder are difficult but not insurmountable diseases. "Normal" craziness" is my forte.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-83859184300908672922011-07-14T13:08:31.357-04:002011-07-14T13:08:31.357-04:00Thank you, Walter, for your kind and compassionate...Thank you, Walter, for your kind and compassionate words to Deb.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-79410408397859773712011-07-14T12:30:43.676-04:002011-07-14T12:30:43.676-04:00I sometimes read the words on my screen that come ...I sometimes read the words on my screen that come from your blog and say, "Damn, that's good stuff." <br /><br />Just thought you'd like to know that your "not normal" readers recognize your (not so crazy) genius regularly.<br /><br />and prayers for all who struggle with depression--it runs wild with my families and friends.<br /><br />Peace, chrissieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-42929026667560543972011-07-14T12:15:57.138-04:002011-07-14T12:15:57.138-04:00I thought carefully, Elizabeth, about the reaching...I thought carefully, Elizabeth, about the reaching out that you expanded to Deb. I use to read a lot of Frieda Fromm-Reichmann in my days of mental health professional in community psychiatry in New York. What I discern from it is diversity between solitude and aloness; a diversity which reached its completion in the celebration of Mass at 6.30 pm local time this past Sunday. Solitude is in such emotional experience where I feel nobody joins me in whatever gently takes my attention and concentration. Aloness is in such emotional experience where I feel the fullness of my aloness because I deeply comprehend that I am not alone. A comprehension that my personal history is made by a genuine experience of community – realized community. And realized community is from where I discern the actualizing potential of affirmative mysticism and expansive community. I hope Deb will see in Telling Secrets a way to expand her sense of community. May we find ways to support those who speak truth to power regardless of political party or ethnicity. Love always finds a way to bring us together. May love find us and strengthen us and keep us grounded. Love, genuine Love is conceived absolutely by the Mind of God. Grant us so to be joined together in unity of spirit by the teaching of Jesus and the apostles and the prophets, that we may be made so a holy temple acceptable to God; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns in unity with God and the Holy Spirit, for ever and ever.<br /><br />Walter Vitalewalterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02888384403637148260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-65403070811009102362011-07-14T12:11:57.252-04:002011-07-14T12:11:57.252-04:00mdharnois - Thank you and bless you for writing to...mdharnois - Thank you and bless you for writing to Deb here. Deb, I hope you have a chance to read this amazing note of painful hope. I happen to know this man and I can tell you that a kinder, gentler, more intelligent, spiritual soul you will not find walking the face of this earth. Thank you for your compassion and kindness, my friend. You inspire me.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-45497664896180277702011-07-14T12:09:51.245-04:002011-07-14T12:09:51.245-04:00Thank you, textjunkie, for the reassurance that ps...Thank you, textjunkie, for the reassurance that psychologists and psychiatrists are also frustrated with the current medical model of treatment. Now, how do we go about changing it? <br /><br />You know, I hate the term "health care reform". It's really "health insurance" that needs the "reform". I fear everything is being driven by people who have barely finished high school who are sitting on the phones with drug protocols in front of them, making life and death and financial life and death decisions for us all.<br /><br />Your cautionary note about psychosis is well made and well received.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-68197766576556486192011-07-14T10:19:55.237-04:002011-07-14T10:19:55.237-04:00I want to respond to Deb based on my experience--y...I want to respond to Deb based on my experience--your mileage may vary.<br /><br />I've been on antidepressants continuously for about thirty years (I'm 55.) I have lost track of how many times I've been hospitalized. I spent about a third of the last year in two separate hospitalizations, including a suicide attempt. (While I was comatose in the ICU following the latter, the rector of the church we were then attending asked my wife how much longer she was going to put up with this. Isn't that special?)<br /><br />I have been on lots and lots of different combinations of medications. I tell you that only to encourage you not to give up on meds if they could make things better, since it sounds as though they're not great right now. Last year, while I was in the hospital, I was started on electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) along with an antidepressant that is delivered via a skin patch and a mood stabilizer. I am at least well enough that most days I can get out of bed, go out and interact with other human beings. That's better than where I was. <br /><br />To not coin a phrase, it gets better. It might not get wonderful, but I'm sure it can be better than what you are describing now. I would be happy to say more or to communicate with you off-blog if I can help somehow.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14511671479212647334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-33230606064051020562011-07-14T10:16:42.418-04:002011-07-14T10:16:42.418-04:00Thanks for posting that! I should read that book--...Thanks for posting that! I should read that book--as someone (PhD, not MD) who works with clinicians and folks with schizophrenia, I remembered Vonnegut being held up as someone who actually "recovered" from schizophrenia, but he was the only one I'd ever heard of. I had wondered about that, why it didn't happen for more people--it makes much more sense that what he had was bipolar disorder. <br /><br />But the psychiatrists--at least the ones I know--are as frustrated by the current treatments as anyone. They are in the job because they want to help, and they know they are working with completely inadequate tools. Taking a sledgehammer to a snowflake, is the metaphor I keep thinking of for what antipsychotic drugs do!! But dang, it's better than the lobotomies, leucotomies, and cold-water baths of 40-50 years ago. It's just depressingly still not a good solution, not even close. (Which is why we do research!! Though less of it these days, the way Congress is cutting NIH's budget...)<br /><br />But there's a real difference between chasing a poem around the yard, having invisible playmates, talking to your computer--and having your mother's voice in the back of your head constantly whispering she's going to kill you, or knowing there's a demon on your back feeling his claws in your brain, forcing you to try to rip your eyes out. I'm sure you've seen stuff like that in various chaplaincy positions--we see it all the time in clinics. Please don't underestimate psychosis!! There are forms of it which are NOT just ramped up normal response, "like normal but more so", and I fear that people who are really suffering could be patronized or the severity of their situation downplayed, with that sort of thinking.textjunkienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-16219917962864514192011-07-14T09:18:56.107-04:002011-07-14T09:18:56.107-04:00I not only understand, Jonathan, I couldn't ag...I not only understand, Jonathan, I couldn't agree more. Something happens when we embrace who we are - warts and all - that allows our authenticity to shine through. That light is the best evangelism "tool", attracting people who are hungry for that in themselves and others. It's also why the institutional church bureaucracy is so frightened of it. Mediocrity is always more comforting than taking the risk of excellence.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-75859575669147616562011-07-14T09:10:44.919-04:002011-07-14T09:10:44.919-04:00I don't mean this to sound boastful, it is jus...I don't mean this to sound boastful, it is just a fact. But I've achieved far more for the Church and bought many, many more people into its fold since I went mad than I ever did before. To be honest, I was too scared to be of any real usefulness prior to my illness.MadPriesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15120376342802143188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-48860028028748832832011-07-14T09:07:54.820-04:002011-07-14T09:07:54.820-04:00Jonathan, the most painful irony of all is that th...Jonathan, the most painful irony of all is that the church, which is supposed to be a haven for 'outcasts' has a very low tolerance for those whom Jesus called "the anawim" - especially among her leaders. I hope you are inspired to read this book. It's wonderfully affirming and inspiring. BTW, I recently met the Bishop of Montana who spent several months in a psychiatric hospital BEFORE he was elected and consecrated bishop. You don't have to be crazy to be in the church, but it helps. A lot.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-72770156769408461462011-07-14T08:00:46.438-04:002011-07-14T08:00:46.438-04:00I love the feeling that my illness gives me of bei...I love the feeling that my illness gives me of being able to think what I like, tell the truth as I see it and be myself. Unfortunately I think this may be what other people fear the most and it is this that has led to my unemployment.MadPriesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15120376342802143188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-56105639112623962922011-07-14T07:16:07.839-04:002011-07-14T07:16:07.839-04:00JofQ - I used to joke that I was convinced I had b...JofQ - I used to joke that I was convinced I had been kidnapped out of the nursery by my parents. Except, it wasn't a joke. I really believed it for a number of years. And then I just realized that I was different. 'Not normal' - at least, not by my parents standards. And then I realized that that was good. It was very good.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-10884142000288112352011-07-14T07:14:12.610-04:002011-07-14T07:14:12.610-04:00Mark - I couldn't agree more. Just knowing wha...Mark - I couldn't agree more. Just knowing what it is that makes you 'different' is a relief. You have the opportunity, then, to embrace it and live with it and celebrate your difference. It takes time. It's not an easy journey to get there. You do waste lots of time in worry about not being normal. And then, you arrive at the place where you understand that not being normal is, as you say, a profound gift.<br /><br />Thanks for writing, Mark. Always good to hear from you.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-66287493591465085822011-07-14T06:38:38.183-04:002011-07-14T06:38:38.183-04:00Fascinating story. I experience a lot of churches ...Fascinating story. I experience a lot of churches and churchpeople who are well-meaning but scared and uninformed about anyone who has a heavy medical history and/or is coming out of a background of trauma, or both - even though officially we are all about going after the stray and marginalised.<br /><br />My background is such that being raised by wolves instead would have been a vast improvement.Joan of Quarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11380435260642403202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-55629375705833164032011-07-14T00:18:38.220-04:002011-07-14T00:18:38.220-04:00I spent a great deal of my life being profoundly f...I spent a great deal of my life being profoundly frustrated - clinical depression didn't answer all the difficulties I was having, nor did a diagnosis of bipolar - and, then, I was told that I was in the autistic spectrum, Asperger's, likely, though it is always difficult to get the diagnosis exactly.<br /><br />Just knowing is a profound relief - it's not that I'm just not doing something right, or lazy or . . . whatever, it's just how I'm made and I can live with that, rather than fighting it. I've become quite happy about my being "different" as I also see things differently, relate differently, and don't have to rely just on myself and hiding my "defective" worldview from others, but share mine as they share theirs.<br /><br />It's a profound gift.MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-26665363318875319842011-07-13T22:22:55.386-04:002011-07-13T22:22:55.386-04:00Thanks for coming by, RevMama. I don't have AD...Thanks for coming by, RevMama. I don't have ADD but I was once told I have some "learning disabilities". I've also been told I'm an over achiever. I knew that.<br /><br />Anyway, I am in great company with the folks who come by this blog. We ain't normal. Not one of us. And we like it just that way, thank you very much. Life is so much more fun that way.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-78006964413984938382011-07-13T22:08:45.448-04:002011-07-13T22:08:45.448-04:00Elizabeth, you wouldn't be convicted by a jury...Elizabeth, you wouldn't be convicted by a jury of your peers because they are as crazy as you are. Crazy in a good way: refusing to settle for the status quo, the ability to look at the same old things and see something wonderfully new, and the ability to laugh at the world and yourself. That kind of craziness is blessed, and often hard-won. Craziness and creativity live next door to each other.<br /><br />I understand the poet who had to chase a poem around her garden, I chase sermons like that. Sometimes I catch them, sometimes they catch me, and sometimes they get away. Adult ADD means that I have lots of ideas running around my head like mice, but I struggle to focus enough to bring them to fruition.<br /><br />Deb, you are in my prayers.<br /><br />I've got to read this book.RevMamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16419041800005378103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-77218310135689891572011-07-13T19:02:19.665-04:002011-07-13T19:02:19.665-04:00Deb - Thank you so much for writing.
Prayers? Yo...Deb - Thank you so much for writing. <br /><br />Prayers? You got 'em. <br /><br />Books? Well, I'm hoping some of the readers of this blog will chime in and offer suggestions, but the one I learned a great deal from was "Listening to Prozac". The author makes much the same point that Vonnegut does - that much of what passes for medical psychiatric care is, "Here, take these pills and shut up." <br /><br />I want to note that Vonnegut still takes lithium and other meds daily. He is also carefully monitored but knows there are no guarantees. He only has the iron will not to be incapacitated by what he understands is a chronic condition. <br /><br />You will be in my prayers, Deb. I wish I had more to offer, but it's all I've got and I give it to you unconditionally and with a heart filled with compassion for your pain.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-47769484660848919682011-07-13T14:38:44.235-04:002011-07-13T14:38:44.235-04:00I could use your prayers and suggestions for books...I could use your prayers and suggestions for books to read. I've been off depression medication since may 2011; after steady daily medication use since may 2005. I stopped my meds because it was wearing off at 3am and leaving me with big nightmares of horror to start my day. Now I am just steeping in depression every day as my job hurts more and pays less and my last couple decades of life look to be very bleak and painful. I was lucky I guess to not be too dysfunctional my early adult years as I had a career and status in my community. However, looking for more I left those comforts to reach higher artistically and spiritually. I had some success as a visual artist but it was not finacially sustainable. Along the way I knew that spiritual growth would not be as I imagined it. This has become true for me, painfully so. I did not become a compassionate healer or selfless servant to humanity. <br /><br /> Now I am just in pain praying without hope; "Cleanse the thoughts of my mind with the your heart of Holiness dear Jesus my savior".<br /><br />Deb in MadisonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com