tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post1180624817142733615..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: The Bishop and the Cyclist, Part II: Anti-social Social MediaElizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-43020333882968571842015-01-17T13:35:14.107-05:002015-01-17T13:35:14.107-05:00Mark - Thank you for this comment. I have had to d...Mark - Thank you for this comment. I have had to delete three hateful comments for every one I get like yours. <br /><br />Here's my favorite post, left on my FB page:<br /><br />As far as I am concerned the focus on anti-gay sentiment (or Hansen's "codependency" or not having done an intervention or whether or not the sacraments performed by the Bishop are valid) is no less an addiction than alcoholism among Christians and it is equally dangerous. As the Pope suggested: "Asking those present how a Christian is able to fall into this attitude, the Pope reflected that “The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology. And ideology does not beckon (people).”<br /><br />Noting that it is a “lack of Christian witness does this,” he stressed that “when this Christian is a priest, a bishop or a Pope it is worse.”<br /><br />“When a Christian becomes a disciple of ideology,” urged the Pope, “he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought,” and “the knowledge of Jesus is transformed into an ideological and also moralistic knowledge.”<br /><br />“Ideology frightens, ideology chases away the people,” he stressed, stating that it is because of this that many are distanced from the Church.<br /><br />“It is a serious illness, this Christian ideology. It is an illness, but it is not new,” he said, recalling how the Apostle John alludes to this mentality in his first letter.<br /><br />Pope Francis then emphasized that the attitude of those who lose their faith in preference of personal ideologies is “rigid, moralistic, ethical, but without kindness.”Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-89827312980572983522015-01-17T00:16:25.797-05:002015-01-17T00:16:25.797-05:00It is terrible. She has let us down. So what? W...It is terrible. She <i>has</i> let us down. So what? We let each other down every day. <br /><br />The only ones with any real say in forgiveness or not are God and the Palermo family. Punishment or not is in the hands of the legal system - such of it as we still have in Republimerica - and not ours as passive observers. <br /><br />I'm not a particularly forgiving person - it's my besetting sin. I'm an alcoholic, off the sauce 9 years and more, but not the bishop involved, and without the stresses and expectations of a bishop. I'm also not a lawyer, not a priest, not a bishop, and not a victim. Is hit-and-run despicable? Yes. Is the one who did it despicable? Not necessarily. Was it lack of concern, human fear, impaired judgment? To me this isn't even about forgiveness - it's not mine to give or withhold, under the circumstances - but about recognizing that this is a human being in a situation I did not directly experience and have little basis for personal comparison. Her diocese is responsible for ecclesial discipline, our courts and jails for secular discipline, private litigation for personal redress. That's me out of it. It hurts. I'm angry and upset - and, you know what, that's <i>my</i> problem, not hers or the Palermos'.MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-25732305648347692572015-01-13T15:11:08.082-05:002015-01-13T15:11:08.082-05:00I absolutely understand the anger. I feel it, too....I absolutely understand the anger. I feel it, too. Not just at Bishop Heather but at the naivete and ignorance of the system that placed an addict in early recovery in this sort of position. <br /><br />That said, it does NOT excuse the horrible behavior demonstrated by some "Christians". Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-77708767160349244412015-01-13T11:25:05.466-05:002015-01-13T11:25:05.466-05:00My best friend's 4 year daughter and 5 year ne...My best friend's 4 year daughter and 5 year nephew were killed by a drunk driver (his 4th offence) and a few years ago one of my closest friends was killed while jogging by a man with 2 prior arrests.<br /><br />I just read an astounding statistic that between 25 and 40% of hospital beds (excluding maternity) are taken by people with alcohol related problems. <br /><br />I understand people's anger generated by this tragedy (I have a lot of my own) but boy, do we need to find a better way of dealing with this problem because we are obviously failing people afflicted with addictions and mostly importantly those innocents who are then paying the final, irrevocable price of those behaviors.8thdayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17139355263412766126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-85818345321264688492015-01-12T17:43:46.157-05:002015-01-12T17:43:46.157-05:00Everyone stands in need of prayer, but right now, ...Everyone stands in need of prayer, but right now, none more than the Palermo family as they continue to grieve as well as Bishop Heather and her family as they continues to struggle with the disastrous and tragic effects of her addiction. <br /><br />If we can't be kind, what's the point? Social media doesn't give us a pass for bad behavior.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-70113068608263652572015-01-12T16:16:17.032-05:002015-01-12T16:16:17.032-05:00Thank you Elizabeth for both of these posts. Soci...Thank you Elizabeth for both of these posts. Social media seems to embody extremes -- extreme good and bad. I have seen activism on social media save lives and bring about the love of God for those desperately needing it (which is why I still am involved in various aspects of it). I have also seen it used as extreme bullying that has driven some to suicide. The lack of kindness and empathy towards Bishop Cook is deeply distressing. All of this "shoulding" seems to me to be a form of gathering stones. I was reminded of a speech given years ago by Angela Davis where she asked each member of the audience to think of the crimes they had committed -- an attempt to avoid categorizing some as "the other."Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16855171851801011788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-5710917296223141072015-01-12T11:21:47.101-05:002015-01-12T11:21:47.101-05:00Thanks, Jim. It's not an easy job but someone&...Thanks, Jim. It's not an easy job but someone's gotta do it. Might as well be the blog owner, right?Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-9002200250823122142015-01-12T11:19:44.289-05:002015-01-12T11:19:44.289-05:00Very well written Rev. E.
"Should" is ...Very well written Rev. E. <br /><br />"Should" is a word used by those who seek to impose a moral obligation on someone else. I think your post makes the point brilliantly.<br /><br />It is true that sometimes reasoned rational conversation does require a referIee. For blogs. that referee is necessarily the author. I think you do it very well.<br /><br />FWIW<br />jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-55911602074858866272015-01-11T17:55:29.951-05:002015-01-11T17:55:29.951-05:00Scoop - I couldn't agree with you more. It is...Scoop - I couldn't agree with you more. It is the intent of this blog to use all the negativity on social media right now to raise awareness and use it for a force for change for the good. I still hope that's possible. Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-64468606775632148442015-01-11T17:52:09.255-05:002015-01-11T17:52:09.255-05:00Anne - im sorry if you took offense. I was trying ...Anne - im sorry if you took offense. I was trying to illustrate how raw we Eposcopalians are feeling right now that even on Episcopal priest published a blog on a major religious site which said we needed Pope Francis as our next Presiding Bishop. I think Francis is probably the best thing to happen to the RCC in decades, but that Episcopalian was taking such a backhand to the woman who is our present PBS I chose to see it as part of the state of high anxiety our church is now in. <br /><br />It's not funny. It's no joke. I'm sorry if my lack of clarity led you to feel disrespected. The intended audience of Episcopalians would have gotten itElizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-76238667264598145902015-01-11T17:45:41.485-05:002015-01-11T17:45:41.485-05:00Marthe- thank you for that really spectacular cult...Marthe- thank you for that really spectacular cultural and psychological analysis of the situation. It makes so much sense. Thank you.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-79270346691813718182015-01-11T17:42:27.588-05:002015-01-11T17:42:27.588-05:00Kirke - as one whose maternal and paternal grandfa...Kirke - as one whose maternal and paternal grandfathers, father and husband were alcoholics, I have had to sort through all my own stuff which this case brings to the fore. It really is so important to understand Gods presence in the midst of it all. It's key, I think, to a healthy, balanced soul.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-28330918021220938332015-01-11T17:38:47.664-05:002015-01-11T17:38:47.664-05:00Thanks Christopher. Always glad to have you visitThanks Christopher. Always glad to have you visitElizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-18440475444861089792015-01-11T17:36:38.938-05:002015-01-11T17:36:38.938-05:00Thank you J C F. We would all be so much better if...Thank you J C F. We would all be so much better if we thought a bit before responding and not respond if we don't have anything constructive to say.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-45828146818470884122015-01-11T15:53:16.505-05:002015-01-11T15:53:16.505-05:00Here's the deal: a terrible thing happened, an...Here's the deal: a terrible thing happened, and happened as a result of choices that were made. A family is hurting because their husband and father is gone in a senseless act. It would be nice if we could support them, pray for them, and keep them in the forefront of our thoughts. They are beloved children of God. They have suffered a terrible loss.<br /><br />The person whose choices resulted in this tragedy is also a child of God first, before being a bishop, or a woman, or a person with an alcohol problem. Yes, there will be consequences for her. Doesn't mean she still is not a beloved child of God and a person. That's all that needs to be said. All the "shoulds" in the world won't change that "is." Instead of focusing so much upon spewing vitriol on someone who is probably in her own private hell right now, we can be constructive and try to embrace all the people who are hurting right now. Scoop (Leslie Scoopmire)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03599423243399045800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-78244058421008763942015-01-11T12:20:50.514-05:002015-01-11T12:20:50.514-05:00I like the formulation of your code of conduct.
...I like the formulation of your code of conduct. <br /><br />With due respect, I don't understand why you bring Pope Francis into a discussion about the Episcopalian church. I understand that as a Catholic I am not the intended audience of this blog, and I can believe that you intended it as a joke. I hope you will understand why I feel it is disrespectful (and gratuitous)..Anne Welchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07773939487916426557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-78750556035722633992015-01-11T11:30:53.365-05:002015-01-11T11:30:53.365-05:00Of all the points made, it seems that the so calle...Of all the points made, it seems that the so called social media is really functioning as the venue for the public stoning of a woman they perceive to have betrayed her role as a last bastion of decency & propriety. It seems to be some sort of primal howl of mourning for a culture that "prizes" personal freedom at the expense of any individual responsibility to act with consideration for the effect of those actions on others. "The Church", whatever the denomination, is supposed to be the one place where a comforting narrow sense of 'right' is still valued, important ... of course, that is an unreasonable, sentimental and largely incorrect view, but it is the wishful thinking that is now so outraged by an actual person "failing" them made so much worse by the fact that it is a woman, a mother figure revealed as merely human ... the them shouting so loudly and resisting the dull, unspectacular, considerate parts of the whole conversation cannot bear to be ignored or to have their own cognitive dissonance exposed for review. It's all just sad.Marthenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-56183210283738645372015-01-11T09:15:01.997-05:002015-01-11T09:15:01.997-05:00I've been quietly following the comments on th...I've been quietly following the comments on this post and the previous one, as well as in several other places on social media, and I keep having this thought--<br /><br />"I wonder how many of the really hateful comments are coming from adult children of alcoholics?"<br /><br />I know in my own case, it was a long time--a LONG time--before I stopped knee-jerking my own desires "to have all those people punished and make them go through the same kind of hell that my alcoholic put me through."<br /><br />As it turned out, though, God was irascibly clever and put some long-in-recovery alcoholics in my path who didn't have a problem telling me I needed to work on MY stuff before pointing fingers at everyone else. That plus a few "there but for the grace of God go I" experiences led me to believe there was a better way and no need for me to be judge and jury. When I finally got around to believing God had all this covered, it freed me from being a judgmental little demigod for the most part.<br /><br />I had another of those experiences just the other night. I barely missed two people walking down the road in dark non-reflective clothing because I was alert. The first thing I thought to myself was, "OMG, what if I'd been fiddling with the radio? Or been distracted by the dogs being in the car? Or, God forbid, been drinking?" It was a reminder that two seconds is all the difference between safety and death sometimes.<br /><br />This is all just a reminder for me of our collective brokenness--it should be a reminder for each of us to reflect upon our own brokenness first and then ask how we as the church, can collectively change the culture. I think this is a difficult one. We Episcopalians pride ourselves at times in using alcohol as the thing that separates us from our more evangelistic bretheren--"See, it's ok, you can have a drink!"--but with that choice comes a different set of challenges to live up to our Baptismal Covenant.Kirkepiscatoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02651684515435040529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-4508723083970721152015-01-11T01:06:20.573-05:002015-01-11T01:06:20.573-05:00Elizabeth, As always you bring gentle, but penetra...Elizabeth, As always you bring gentle, but penetrating light to the subject. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.<br />Christopher Hartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-61401224883262973992015-01-11T01:00:37.558-05:002015-01-11T01:00:37.558-05:00The more I read about this topic, the less I have ...The more I read about this topic, the less I have to say. Even those who "should know better", don't---and that probably includes me, too.<br /><br />So signing off (w/ prayers).JCFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-68608703342979523122015-01-10T19:57:15.062-05:002015-01-10T19:57:15.062-05:00And . . . . the haters gotta hate, I guess, but th...And . . . . the haters gotta hate, I guess, but they won't get any light on this blog. <br /><br />That's a promise. Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-1285524771994789382015-01-10T19:56:08.955-05:002015-01-10T19:56:08.955-05:00Malcolm - It is indeed worth nothing. Bishop Sutto...Malcolm - It is indeed worth nothing. Bishop Sutton has provided stellar leadership under pressure. <br /><br />It bears repeating, "CRISIS OFTEN LEADS TO BAD POLICY". Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-12633833993010370392015-01-10T19:54:49.145-05:002015-01-10T19:54:49.145-05:00Thanks, ClarkThanks, ClarkElizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-7708392995356175072015-01-10T19:54:39.117-05:002015-01-10T19:54:39.117-05:00I don't know, Tom. Last time I checked, the fi...I don't know, Tom. Last time I checked, the first commandment was still there. No one has taken it away or taken away its power. <br /><br />Don't bother trying to explain. I'm sure I will not be edified by your explanation. <br /><br />Thanks for stopping by.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-15237692368333539582015-01-10T18:57:45.364-05:002015-01-10T18:57:45.364-05:00Well said, my friend.
It may be worth noting how...Well said, my friend. <br /><br />It may be worth noting how effectively the Diocese of Maryland has managed to maintain transparency of communications in all this, while still being respectful of everyone involved. I'm thinking to propose to some friends in PR education that this may be a good case study in effective and ethical crisis communications.<br /><br />I think the questions about getting are reasonable in the abstract, but the current context distorts the necessary discussion in unhelpful ways. My wife the lawyer likes to quote the aphorism that "hard cases make bad law." By the same token, crises often lead to bad policy."Malcolm+https://www.blogger.com/profile/08469936715413110334noreply@blogger.com