tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post3620778758312068333..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: Half-assed baptized?Elizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-53184529556374038662015-07-28T20:48:55.991-04:002015-07-28T20:48:55.991-04:00Yes, we didn't take the full Montey in SLCU bu...Yes, we didn't take the full Montey in SLCU but we're only 7 steps from 100%. In three years, I really feel we'll be at 100%. Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-59839725938192046912015-07-25T16:27:06.838-04:002015-07-25T16:27:06.838-04:00Many thanks for this! I stumbled upon it while loo...Many thanks for this! I stumbled upon it while looking up a different quote from Bishop Barbara Harris... but had to read the whole post once I saw were you were going with it. It's also kind of wonderful seeing this just after the 2015 General Convention and the nationwide legal support of marriage for all people regardless of gender. Nice to see a few steps forward in succession!ShinyThoughtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03260017447962673859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-75119706271012781102011-03-24T22:42:58.493-04:002011-03-24T22:42:58.493-04:00I think you are right. My commentary at FoJ.I think you are right. My commentary at FoJ.IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-43763911453930704962011-03-24T14:01:50.968-04:002011-03-24T14:01:50.968-04:00Thanks, jimB. The more straight allies we have lik...Thanks, jimB. The more straight allies we have like you who will stand in solidarity with us, the sooner this injustice will end.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-50613994300506978502011-03-24T13:34:58.164-04:002011-03-24T13:34:58.164-04:00Thanks for crystallizing why we felt so unmoved by...Thanks for crystallizing why we felt so unmoved by what was going on in Atlanta. Sue-z and I wanted to be excited, we really did, but we did not manage it. I think it was equivalent to having blacks paint the "whites only" signs in bus stations back in the 30's. <br /><br />We went to church and got married, not civil unioned: married. Until every person has the same prerogative, we are in a protected class and that is simply wrong. <br /><br /><br />FWIW<br />jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-41039432024049874212011-03-23T19:01:29.038-04:002011-03-23T19:01:29.038-04:00I think you and Grandpère better brace yourselves....I think you and Grandpère better brace yourselves. I fear a 'special and different' blessing is coming our way. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. Indeed, I would be very pleased to be wrong. But, the church is hardly ready for blessing the covenants of same gender couples. I think a 'special' one will, ironically, be the compromise.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-57483833914032617512011-03-23T18:48:06.572-04:002011-03-23T18:48:06.572-04:00I ask you: Are same-sex couples any more "spe...I ask you: Are same-sex couples any more "special" than Grandpère and me? Why I'd be jealous if same-sex couples had "special" blessings. :-)June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-76840984624274417712011-03-23T18:44:29.051-04:002011-03-23T18:44:29.051-04:00I'm sure I'm not very popular with some of...I'm sure I'm not very popular with some of my colleagues, but someone had to say it. Might as well be me. I've got the least to lose.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-24550025404602259832011-03-23T17:36:49.029-04:002011-03-23T17:36:49.029-04:00Elizabeth, I agree, and I'm glad you posted on...Elizabeth, I agree, and I'm glad you posted on "separate, but equal".<br /><br />My thought is that the church should remove itself entirely from doing the job of the civil authorities of witnessing to the legalization of marriages.<br /><br />As to the blessing ceremony, the rite or rites should be the same for everyone - no special blessing for same-sex couples.<br /><br />For crying out loud!!! It's simple.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-24901453167002826142011-03-23T07:57:14.781-04:002011-03-23T07:57:14.781-04:00Jeffri - I understand that, between the co-chairs ...Jeffri - I understand that, between the co-chairs of the Pastoral Concerns committee and some of the deputation, there were more of "us" in Atlanta than have ever before been when they were discussing "us". A good representation, so that, while some of "us" may not have been in every room when we were being talked about, there were enough of us to talk to after the small groups.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-59498730739624885212011-03-23T00:07:56.323-04:002011-03-23T00:07:56.323-04:00Thank you, Elizabeth. Well said.
What really fru...Thank you, Elizabeth. Well said.<br /><br />What really frustrates me about what I've seen, heard, and read (including the documents produced by the meeting) is that I have that familiar feeling of being talked about and at.<br /><br />There are days when this process as conversation (and conversation instead of action) is enough to make me leave the church. And not just the Episcopal Church.Jeffri Harrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06461994557670902616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-54231301333623390062011-03-22T21:54:25.452-04:002011-03-22T21:54:25.452-04:00Dearest Elizabeth!
I have ALWAYS wondered at the f...Dearest Elizabeth!<br />I have ALWAYS wondered at the fuzzy reading of the Cana passage found in the BCP marriage rite. Talk about sloppy exegesis. If I can dig out one of my first EDS papers, for Bill Kondrath's Pastoral Offices class, I'll e-mail it to you. It was about "same-sex blessings," and largely argued against some gay proposals of how it would need to be altered to fit the special circumstances of LGBT couples. Like take out the mention of children on p.423, and play around with references to fidelity because of course gay men especially cannot be bound to an absolute standard of sexual fidelity. My argument was NO WAY. If marriage is to be sacramental for us all, we need to make some hard promises with no fingers crossed behind our backs. Knowing that we are capable of breaking those promises and wounding those we've vowed to love comfort honor and keep--that's what repentance and forgiveness are for. But let's not go in and say, This oath before God is a little strict, so could we have a half-assed marriage for our less ambitious LGBT selves? Let's do a fundamental re-examination of the theology of marriage by all means, but let it be the theology that grounds ALL marriage, gay and straight. And then let the (revised) marriage rite published in the BCP be the one that we all use, every word of it meaningful and binding on gay and straight couples alike.Thomas Eoyanghttp://ThosEoyang@aol.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-78734758814714453602011-03-22T20:44:58.154-04:002011-03-22T20:44:58.154-04:00Anonymous - I usually don't print comments lef...Anonymous - I usually don't print comments left by "Anonymous" but I understand why you couldn't leave your name. Your story breaks my heart. I posted it so that those who can't believe this still goes on in the church will know better.<br /><br />You know that you and your family are of God. Trust in that. Believe in that. Teach your children that. <br /><br />There are those of us in the church who support and cherish your family. One day, your daughter will know that.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-1752878916994815942011-03-22T20:42:53.872-04:002011-03-22T20:42:53.872-04:00Suzer - Sigh. I know. It's really hard to stay...Suzer - Sigh. I know. It's really hard to stay in the institutional church when all of this is going on. And yes, that's precisely what the homophobes have tried to do. Indeed, I think some of them were honestly stunned when some of us kept coming back. Which is why they left.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-21981830470872143982011-03-22T20:03:50.241-04:002011-03-22T20:03:50.241-04:00I agree with Suzer. I am finding it harder and ha...I agree with Suzer. I am finding it harder and harder to go to church. I am tired of being hurt. I am tired of trying to explain this treatment to my children. Once a month the church recognizes marriage anniversaries. My daughter asked me why we didn't stand up since we have been together for 20 years. Unfortunately, she said this in a loud whisper. Those around us just stared. My heart broke for all of us. How do you explain this to a child?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-42933630769423463002011-03-22T17:42:25.575-04:002011-03-22T17:42:25.575-04:00Thank you for this, Elizabeth!
It is because of...Thank you for this, Elizabeth! <br /><br />It is because of this separate but equal that I find myself moving further and further away from the church. Any church. I'm tired of being hurt. I'm tired of picking up the crumbs. I'm tired of my life and love being endlessly analyzed and compared to heterosexual relationships. <br /><br />I had been excited at the prospect of possibly getting "married" in my home parish, until I found out that we couldn't use the rite in the BCP. (This was years ago, before I knew much about the politics of same-sex blessings in the church.) How naive I was!<br /><br />Perhaps this is what the anti-gay folks want -- all of us GLBTQ folks to just leave the church and let them have their purity cult all to themselves. Maybe I'm playing into their hands. But honestly, I've got a lot of life to live. I've got a lot of Christ's message to share. And I don't have time for the Church to catch up. <br /><br />Reminds me of the lyrics from a Mary Gauthier song: "Sometimes you gotta do, what you gotta do; and hope that the people you love, catch up with you."Suzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03529580138314011952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-89862632084639808612011-03-22T15:11:37.434-04:002011-03-22T15:11:37.434-04:00SCG - I know. Stop it and get on with it. The firs...SCG - I know. Stop it and get on with it. The first "it" being BS and the second "it" being justice.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-61958640662337223712011-03-22T15:10:50.922-04:002011-03-22T15:10:50.922-04:00Barbi - Lots of people on HOB/D are raising questi...Barbi - Lots of people on HOB/D are raising questions about "separate but equal". It's encouraging. I'm sure this "process" will ultimately lead to a liturgical rite that can be used by everyone, but man, it's so painfully slow to get there.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-34874137542783846232011-03-22T14:57:39.920-04:002011-03-22T14:57:39.920-04:00Yay!! And so interesting as I am in the middle of...Yay!! And so interesting as I am in the middle of writing out my own thoughts (read frustrations) with the whole marriage business. I might cross-reference to this post. <br />I live in a state that not only has outlawed same-sex marriage in FOUR places in the state statutes, the voters also put the ban in the state constitution in 2008. My bishop was not supportive of C056 (or D025) at the last GC, and so I can only watch from the nosebleed section as this "issue" continues to get played on the field of church politics. I do applaud them for trying. But I also think it's stupid and incredibly painful to watch the church struggle against the Love promised to all of us. Sometimes, I just want to yell, "Oh, please, STOP it!"SCGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08162762233972733978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-67582814736491344702011-03-22T14:43:27.480-04:002011-03-22T14:43:27.480-04:00Wonderful, Elizabeth!
I have refrained from readi...Wonderful, Elizabeth! <br />I have refrained from reading the posts on HoB/D simply because I did not want to see anything less than what you have stated is only right. I am tired of half-assed everything. One of the things I do know - my baptism, even in a little rural Southern Baptist church - is the real deal and holy. The other thing I know is that my relationship with D is also holy. We have not had the "church" bless our union nor have we gone to another state to be married. But it is blessed and we are a blessing. God said so.Barbi Clickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15850017543275895154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-79575274959183007622011-03-22T13:37:29.167-04:002011-03-22T13:37:29.167-04:00Well, Matthew, there you go, ruining the illusion ...Well, Matthew, there you go, ruining the illusion that LGBT people want "special rights/rites". <br /><br />Okay, so the secret is out. We just want what the church says she promises. That's all.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-59741265011389984142011-03-22T13:33:56.655-04:002011-03-22T13:33:56.655-04:00AMEN sister!!!! I look forward to the day when my...AMEN sister!!!! I look forward to the day when my beloved and I can have a Holy Matrimony ceremony in our church (regardless of whether same sex marriage is legal in whatever state we happen to reside in). I also want our liturgy to be in a bound book, already sitting in the pews, not some photocopy job that is taken from "sources." I want the liturgy to be in a hard bound book and sort of like when my straight brother had holy matrimony in a church, also without photocopies and just a prayer book. That is part of my reticence of having one of these ceremonies. I want it to be like what everyone else has.Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16855171851801011788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-7898802600597703822011-03-22T13:01:33.981-04:002011-03-22T13:01:33.981-04:00PP - I am really tired of crawling on my hands and...PP - I am really tired of crawling on my hands and knees to the altar. Let's get on with it.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-84943940459695654032011-03-22T12:59:59.994-04:002011-03-22T12:59:59.994-04:00Muthah - Steal away, dear sister. Steal away to Je...Muthah - Steal away, dear sister. Steal away to Jesus.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-60422976469584624212011-03-22T12:59:42.362-04:002011-03-22T12:59:42.362-04:00IT - Ms. Conroy and I had our relationship blessed...IT - Ms. Conroy and I had our relationship blessed, within the context our blessing our family and our home, in 1986 by our rector, Emmett Jarrett - now numbered among the saints of God. Most of the parish of St. John's Bowdoin Street were there.<br /><br />When we get legally married, we won't need a 'blessing' from the church. Indeed, we hope we have been a blessing to the church.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.com