tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post7070184540683907882..comments2024-03-23T18:50:32.902-04:00Comments on Telling Secrets: Celebrating HerstoryElizabeth Kaetonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-16471819000619204722013-04-11T21:38:53.373-04:002013-04-11T21:38:53.373-04:00Lazarus - here's the thing about Priesthood: t...Lazarus - here's the thing about Priesthood: the institutional church is the agent of authorization for ordination, along with the sacraments of baptism and Eucharist and the other sacramental rites like ordination and marriage and confirmation, etc. So, yes, I subscribe to St Paul's idea of the "priesthood of all believers" of which we are all members through our baptism in Christ. That, however, is different from institutional priesthood.<br /><br />Really, Lazarus, this is a pretty basic conversation. I'm surprised you seem to be just now entering into it.<br /><br />So, it looks like you and some of your friends have been reading and making comments all over my blog. I'm flattered by all the attention. Thank you. Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-17448057548847646312013-04-11T05:09:26.223-04:002013-04-11T05:09:26.223-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Lazarusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-63388817969798343612013-04-11T05:06:44.861-04:002013-04-11T05:06:44.861-04:00Dear Elizabeth Keaton, you mentioned Mary Madeline...Dear Elizabeth Keaton, you mentioned Mary Madeline evangelizing for the Lord. Is that the same as Priesthood? Don't all Christians evangelize in some way? No Christian should deny that God loves women and using them to minister the world. Mary, the Mother of God, provided the human genetics and possessed the grace to bear the Word of God, and by her body God was made flesh. In fact, St. Paul says women should 'adorn themselves with good works'. But, St. Peter said that 'not many of us will be Priests', and that priesthood demands greater condemnation. Throughout Israel and the first 1800 years of the Christian Church, men have been assigned the condemnation. May I ask, to you ascribe fully to the Holy Scriptures contained in our Holy Bible? Or do you take particular exception to certain writings? Please know that I come from a place of love and hope for us all. Lazarusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-85098497618687982272011-05-01T18:15:45.232-04:002011-05-01T18:15:45.232-04:00Thank you, Alice.
I've already read lots of ...Thank you, Alice. <br /><br />I've already read lots of your stuff. Well, enough to know your position, which is nothing new. It's the same-old-same-old tired stuff I heard when I was growing up in the RC Church and among Greek Orthodox in my neighborhood.<br /><br />They (and now, people like you who hold to this position about WO) will argue something like the 'fact' that TEC is not keeping the "proper tension" between Scripture and Tradition. <br /><br />And, I will argue that you are not keeping the 'proper tension' between Scripture and Tradition and the on-going revelation of the Holy Spirit. <br /><br />Indeed, I would argue that your argument is a testimony to spiritual cowardice, hiding behind a wall of scripture and tradition because you are so afraid of what the Holy Spirit still has to reveal. <br /><br />So, we'd volley back and forth like that, to what end? This conversation is over, having been decided by the church for going on two generations in the church. Even the folks at SFiF will not allow a discussion of WO. Why on earth should I give you a forum for you position, outdated and irrelevant to the life of this branch of the church as it is?<br /><br />I wish you well, Alice. I can only believe that this request for conversation on my blog comes from the heart of one who is in a place of desperate spiritual loneliness and in deep need of affirmation for what must have been - and continues to be, obviously, from your request - a difficult and painful decision based on a 'reaction' (vs a 'response') to the consecration of +VGR. <br /><br />I pray for your eventual healing, your acceptance of the consequences of your decision, and the joy of your new relationship with God in Christ.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-26674045606500329862011-05-01T15:46:21.994-04:002011-05-01T15:46:21.994-04:00Elizabeth, I've responded to your questions he...Elizabeth, I've responded to your questions here:<br /><br />http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2011/05/passing-conversation-with-priestess.html<br /><br />See the links under "related reading."<br /><br />You might want to respond to this at your blog. I'll link my post back to your response. That would make a fair hearing for your readers and mine.<br /><br />Best wishes,<br />Alice<br /><br />P.S. I value the photo. There are so few of dear Lyman Ogilby (far right) who was the bishop who approved me to enter seminary. We both lived in the Philippines and used to chat about our experiences there.Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-29956728728317988942011-04-30T15:54:31.023-04:002011-04-30T15:54:31.023-04:00Alice - never mind. I just googled you and now kno...Alice - never mind. I just googled you and now know who you are. Gave up your orders when +V Gene Robinson was ordained. <br /><br />You have the courage of your convictions and took the high road. Good for you. <br /><br />If you are comfortable with your decision, why come over to blogs like mine? Why read an essay about ordained women? Why did you feel it necessary to comment - and take a pot shot about "being lonely"? <br /><br />Sounds like things are not completely settled in your soul. I will pray for your continued strength and discernment, my sister.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-75979571016284525562011-04-30T14:14:10.521-04:002011-04-30T14:14:10.521-04:00BTW, I'm running out to do errands so if I don...BTW, I'm running out to do errands so if I don't answer right away, you'll understand.<br /><br />One thing we can agree on: The Lord is Risen. Alleluia!Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-51113947880663286122011-04-30T14:12:03.237-04:002011-04-30T14:12:03.237-04:00So, Alice, have you renounced your priesthood, too...So, Alice, have you renounced your priesthood, too? If you have, I'm so sorry. If you haven't, why haven't you? I'm really curious to know.<br /><br />Do you really doubt that God called you to ordained service because of "historical, anthropological, linguistic, and archaeological evidence"? Do you really doubt that the Holy Spirit can't work through all those human-made and human-defined barriers?<br /><br />God called Ester and Ruth and Judith to leadership in community. They weren't ordained because of ancient, cultural misogyny. <br /><br />Why else would Jesus choose Mary Magdalene to be the first to reveal himself after the resurrection, and make her the first evangelist?<br /><br />No, I'm not lonely. At. All. I was, when I was RC and knowing that "the boys" had it all wrong. What looks to you like a limb is really a very strong branch of the tree of apostolic faith. <br /><br />And, no, I don't know "that" about Stacy Stauls. I find him to be eloquent and articulate and strong defender of the faith. <br /><br />See also: not lonely.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-50486289814715590112011-04-30T13:53:36.290-04:002011-04-30T13:53:36.290-04:00I was ordained to the priesthood by Allan Bartlet...I was ordained to the priesthood by Allan Bartlett in the Diocese of Pennsylvania and personally knew Geralyn Wolf, Barbara Harris, Mary Glasspool and many others. I knew these women to be caring and sincere people. This isn't about their (or your) character. It is about historical, anthropological, linguistic, and archaeological evidence.<br /><br />Bishop Sauls was my bishop. He was far from supportive. He doesn't support those who disagree with him, and you know that.<br /><br />Do you ever get lonely out on that limb? You think that there are so many who hold your view, but it is a very small club. I never realized how small until I left TEC and began to explore the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches.<br /><br />May the rising of the Son of God shine on your heart and illumine you.Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-53128959972825012062011-04-30T13:30:03.398-04:002011-04-30T13:30:03.398-04:00Alice - I'm assuming you are from Lexington, K...Alice - I'm assuming you are from Lexington, KY (checked my sitemeter). Bishops Sauls, right? Very supportive. You must either not be Episcopalian, or you are in one of the schismatic Anglican-wanna-be churches from the Global South or you are Roman Catholic. <br /><br />So, what's a nice "orthodox" girl like you doing in a place like this? I mean, what do you expect? <br /><br />If you need to feel "sad", then I suppose you could come here and 'tut tut' but why waste your time? Why not invest it in being the best orthodox woman you can be - and be happy?<br /><br />God's peace and joy to you on the eve of the Second Sunday in the most joyous season of Easter.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-46611997222366632552011-04-30T13:10:12.892-04:002011-04-30T13:10:12.892-04:00Investigate all you want, my dear, but a fact is a...Investigate all you want, my dear, but a fact is a fact. You can be sad about that fact. You'll excuse me, however, and millions of others, as we rejoice and give thanks and praise to God who never limits the power of the Holy Spirit to call those who are equipped for the ministry of ordained service in the Church beyond barriers of gender, race, age, and sexual orientation.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-41917917701557611612011-04-30T13:00:24.915-04:002011-04-30T13:00:24.915-04:00Oaky. We'll be sad for each other and let the ...Oaky. We'll be sad for each other and let the Lord sort it out.<br /><br />However, as the priesthood is based on an unchanging celestial pattern which presents God as male priest from time immemorial, there is certainly reason to investigate the nature of their "priesthood."Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-60749047629598009122011-04-30T12:50:08.770-04:002011-04-30T12:50:08.770-04:00You may not like the fact that they are priests, b...You may not like the fact that they are priests, but that doesn't change the fact that they are priests, Alice.<br /><br />I'm sad for you.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-48249952901394609162011-04-30T12:17:14.755-04:002011-04-30T12:17:14.755-04:00These women are "priests" in name only. ...These women are "priests" in name only. I'm sad for them, not celebrating.Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-504215694947899692010-11-26T09:39:32.830-05:002010-11-26T09:39:32.830-05:00My apologies, Mark. I didn't know your mother ...My apologies, Mark. I didn't know your mother or her preferences. I believe I just copied it from a "herstory" book. <br /><br />You must be very proud of her. You'll have to write a story for us about her so we can publish it in RUACH or in our electronic newsletter The Monthly Caucus. Thanks again, Mark.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-5826427682198973212010-11-26T00:43:20.800-05:002010-11-26T00:43:20.800-05:00On your page, you list Beryl Turner as one of the ...On your page, you list Beryl Turner as one of the early pioneers in women's ordination. Please note that her proper name at the time, as well as currently, was Beryl Turner Choi.<br />This is somewhat important, at least to me, as she is my mother.Mark Choinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-71608373006370873632010-11-26T00:42:00.003-05:002010-11-26T00:42:00.003-05:00On your page, you list Beryl Turner as one of the ...On your page, you list Beryl Turner as one of the early pioneers in women's ordination. Please note that her proper name at the time, as well as currently, was Beryl Turner Choi.<br />This is somewhat important, at least to me, as she is my mother.Mark Choinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-40677092261365891782009-06-18T12:33:11.666-04:002009-06-18T12:33:11.666-04:00You forgot, The Rev. Judith E. Upham, priested 1/6...You forgot, The Rev. Judith E. Upham, priested 1/6/77Muthah+https://www.blogger.com/profile/10589837671378205837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-3518228085641313942009-06-13T21:41:33.293-04:002009-06-13T21:41:33.293-04:00When I was ordained to the priesthood, I very much...When I was ordained to the priesthood, I very much wanted to emphasise women's apostolic succession and so was most fortunate to have Nancy Wittig put the stole around my neck along with the third woman ordained to the priesthood in the Diocese of New Jersey, Louise Kingston.Caminantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16610142955176992982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-35607617229945357902009-06-13T20:03:19.651-04:002009-06-13T20:03:19.651-04:00Hey, Mary Anne - that would have been Ellen Barret...Hey, Mary Anne - that would have been Ellen Barrett who is FAAARRRR from quite about her sexual orientation. I didn't label her as a 'first' because she wasn't any more 'open' at her ordination than were Carter Heyward or Emily Hewitt or any of the other of the Philadelphia 11. It was the heyday of the 'don't ask, don't tell' mindset. It was enough that they were women. To trumpet that were lesbians would have been to have fed into the hysteria about ordaining women in the first place. Ellen, as you may remember, was 'outed' on the front page of the NY Times on the day of her ordination.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-42127586591795473862009-06-13T19:45:37.360-04:002009-06-13T19:45:37.360-04:00Thanks be to God for all those wonderful women in ...Thanks be to God for all those wonderful women in whose footsteps we walk.<br /><br />I was disappointed not to see among the lists of "Firsts" the first out lesbian to be ordained. Did she not want to be singled out, or was this an, ah-hem, "oversight"?Revmaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12963400160724520342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-51122778123176298432009-06-13T19:25:04.772-04:002009-06-13T19:25:04.772-04:00While I regret leaving out Penny Jamieson, Bishop ...While I regret leaving out Penny Jamieson, Bishop Barbara was the first - in 1988. Bishop Penny does have the distinction of being the first diocesan bishop in the Anglican Communion.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-31039309403368964492009-06-13T19:16:28.808-04:002009-06-13T19:16:28.808-04:00While I give thanks for all these women, one is le...While I give thanks for all these women, one is left out and from my research should be acknowledged.<br />1989: The fear of the first female Anglican bishop materialized when the Anglican Church of New Zealand consecrated <b>Penny Jamieson as the seventh Bishop of Dunedin</b>. Later that year, the Episcopal Church, USA consecrated Barbara Harris, an African-American woman, as bishop.Brian Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10802352695666737088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-9086560998092238282009-06-13T18:32:18.737-04:002009-06-13T18:32:18.737-04:00Prayers for all of you that the Spirit of the livi...Prayers for all of you that the Spirit of the living God moves amongst you and within you, renewing, restoring, and strengthening you for the work ahead. I am with you in spirit.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29373297.post-16849176199152019062009-06-13T10:34:44.171-04:002009-06-13T10:34:44.171-04:00And to think there are some who would have wished ...And to think there are some who would have wished to have stalled it all with a study or two (or 100) and "wait" until the rest of the church catholic were okay with it.<br /><br />History not only teaches, it gives hope.<br /><br />Enjoy the day! As the word verification says, "Artwadi!"KJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15701224049914946896noreply@blogger.com