Come in! Come in!

"If you are a dreamer, come in. If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, a Hope-er, a Pray-er, a Magic Bean buyer; if you're a pretender, come sit by my fire. For we have some flax-golden tales to spin. Come in! Come in!" -- Shel Silverstein

Wednesday, March 07, 2007

Colin Coward responds to the "Alphabet Soup Evangelical Splinter Groups"

I don't know why I'm doing this.

I know that "Bottom Feeders" are never satisfied. Come what may, they will continue to rummage and forage for even the faintest whiff of trash in the baptismal font and then chew on it for days and days and days.

They were just starting to gear up for the Executive Committee's reaction to the Primate's Communique, but got the wind knocked out of their sails when, like good, mature adults, the members of the Executive Committe did not react, but rather, responded - on their terms and in their time.

If you have read the PRESS RELEASE from Changing Attitude and visited the Comments Section, you'll see that some folks are really upset by this. Gee, it must REALLY be a slow newsweek!

Then again, of course they are. Upset. The truth is ALWAYS upsetting. Jesus got crucified for telling the truth, as I recall.

Well, I only posted a few of the nasty notes. The bulk of them are over at "Viagra Central" (Stand Firm in Faith).

Someone actually took the time to write to Colin Coward, challenging him to provide "evidence" that Davis was in any danger.

Here's what Colin had to say. It won't help the neo-Puritan, conservative, orthodox evangelicals or the folks in the "The Alphabet Soup Evangelical Splinter Groups."

And, it was a PRESS RELEASE, for goodness sake.

And, this is a personal blog, not one affiliated with or endorsed by any church, group or organization.

And . . . oh bother! None of this makes much difference. Carry on!

BUT, not here. Send your notes to Colin - if you've actually got the courage and integrity to do that.

From: "Colin Coward"
Subject: Re: Question About Your Press Release
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:23:08 -0000

It's difficult to provide factual evidence that this is the case. The clearest evidence is the support of the Church of Nigeria for the bill at present before the Nigerian assembly which would make illegal any form of gay club or association or public assembly or contact with lesbian and gay people.

This would make it illegal for any person identifying themselves as gay or lesbian to meet with a bishop or any church member to engage in any kind of listening process (an illegal for the bishop or church member as well). It would make attending church and associating with the congregation as an open lesbian or gay person illegal. This has the effect of silencing and effectively eradicating from the church all lesbian and gay people. They would still be there, of course, but totally invisible and subject to arrest and imprisonment should they inadvertently or consciously 'come out'.

I would like to hear how conservatives maintain that this is a baseless charge, given the sweep of the proposed legislation. The legislation may not become law, of course. In this case, the church would have to explain how its present support for the bill is specific to the bill and does not represent church policy which will be enacted, bill or no bill.

There is also the evidence of silence and inactivity. I think Nigeria is one of the Provinces which has either failed to provide any evidence of having engaged with the listening process or has refused to take any action on listening as committed to in Lambeth 1.10. As evidence that the church is moving in the other direction, and is not wanting to silence or eradicate her lesbian and gay members, I would want the church to issue a statement to such effect to counter the evidence which suggests otherwise.


Bill said...

I’d say that the silence is deafening. It reminds me of the silence perpetrated by the Roman Catholic Church during WWII concerning what was happening to the Jews.
This article from CNN:
The French Catholics apologize for World War II silence on Jews
October 1, 1997
DRANCY, France (CNN) -- France's Roman Catholic clergy have apologized for the church's silence during the systematic persecution and deportation of Jews by the pro-Nazi Vichy regime.

This time though, what with modern communications, they will not be able to hide behind their "silence".

episcopalifem said...

My thoughts, exactly, Colin. Amen.

David Ould said...

Elizabeth, do help me out because I feel terribly confused.

You accuse conservatives of "ad hominem" attacks and yet you title this post with the label "Alphabet Soup".

Then, perhaps you can provide a clarification. You claim that Conservatives "took the time to write to Colin Coward, challenging him to provide "evidence" that Davis was in any danger."

That's not actually true, is it? They actually asked for evidence that the Nigerian Anglicans were responsible for the appalling way that Davis has been threatened.

It would help if you could clarify which of these 2 very different questions was asked.

Elizabeth Kaeton said...


If you consider the descriptive phrase "Alphabet Soup" Evangelicals an ad hominem attack, you need to get tougher skin.

Try having your humanity defined in terms of a purient fascination with what others think you do in bed. Or being told that the bible you read is "counterfeit," or your faith is "inauthentic."

Or try posting a Press Release about the ongoing oppression of LGBT people in Nigeria that you refuse to explain or defend and being called "gutless" and then get back to me about ad hominem attacks.

To your second point: Colin forwarded me a few of the letters he received from some conservatives. I quoted their question EXACTLY.

Perhaps you wrote Colin. Perhaps YOUR question was different. Perhaps YOU didn't get an answer from him or one that was satisfactory for you.

I have no way of knowing that. Neither do I really care. None of that is my responsibility.

I only know what Colin wrote me and how he responded, which I replicated on my blog.

I hope that's helpful to you, Dave. Oh, and one more thing:

It's so painfully obvious that the real reason that the "Alphabet Soup" Evangelicals are absolutely flummoxed about this is that they know it's true.

All this "static" in cyberspace is clearly designed to deter us from printing information from Nigeria.

Well, it's not going to work. We're going to continue to put pressure on the Anglican Church in Nigeria to make certain that men and women like Davis are protected from WHOEVER is threatening them.

The aggrivation and annoyance, the slander and the ad hominem attacks are worth it if it protects the lives of the "Alphabet Soup" Progressives, the LGBT children of God.

Mike in Texas said...

Elizabeth said, "It's so painfully obvious that the real reason that the "Alphabet Soup" Evangelicals are absolutely flummoxed about this is that they know it's true."

I have to agree with you on this one, Elizabeth. They protest too much. As far as I have seen, not a single one of them has produced anything factual that would shed further light on the issue.

And, BTW, I've yet to run across any statement from Peter Akinola or the stateside dioceses of the Nigerian church condemning the threats against Davis Mac-Iyalla. Have I missed anything in that regard?

Meanwhile they fuss about whether or not the term "Alphabet Soup" is an attack on conservatives. Can they possibly make themselves more irrelevant?

MarkBrunson said...

Absolutely agree, Elizabeth.

This is a dishonest little game constantly played by the "orthodox" that I've constantly run into elsewhere. Put the one accusing on the defensive to take the focus off the actual misdeed.

Kudos for your maintaining your focus.